Tag Archives: polyamory

261. A bit more Kayla

I left a bit of a cliffhanger with inference there is a disturbance in the DD force with Mike and I.  I will get to that in my next post – promise!  I was re-reading my prior posts and felt I left a bit out that I want to add regarding Kayla. 

HOW DOES KAYLA FIT IN TO OUR EQUITY? 
We weren’t looking for a relationship with Kayla, and it wasn’t like we were “needing” it.  But our willingness to continually put our equity into our relationship means our relationship is open to so many new and wonderful things.

To re-visit my prior analogy, our marriage is not a closed box containing the two of us, it has a door and windows, and if someone rings the doorbell, we check out who it is.  Maybe, just maybe, they get invited in.  Some temporarily, like John, Donna, and Matt.  Some..or make that one, stay indefinitely, like Kayla.

And what does it mean to have Kayla as part of my relationship with Mike….well, not just a relationship, but a marriage?

We both feel strongly connected to Kayla.  She is part of us. “Us” in my marriage is three.  I shared some of the things we have done to further “bond” her to “us.”  Here are a few more things –

SOME SIMPLE THINGS
Public displays of affection — holding hands, putting arms around each other, or even the quick little pecks on the lips.  Yeah, they happen, whether Mike and her, or me and her, or the three of us.  Pda’s can happen, but generally aren’t in our nature, so not a lot of that, but, they aren’t forbidden.  Both Mike and I try to do it a little more with Kayla, as it is a simple gesture to show her we aren’t hiding her.

It also isn’t uncommon you hear us use various terms of endearment here and there… a “luv” here, a “babe” there, or even a “sweetie” at times.  Any one of us may be directing it at any one else.  It has even been a bit funny when someone says something and throws in a “babe” and the other two are like, “which babe are you talking to?”

SOME SEXY THINGS
Of course there is also the sex.  Kayla sleeps in our bed all the time now.  Sex is an every night thing.  Sometimes it can be more Mike and Kayla or more Mike and me, or more Kayla and I…it simply is whatever it evolves to be for the night.  I do love watching the two of them.  There are times I tell Mike I am fine with just the two of them having sex and I will just watch and masturbate.

We still have our one night a week alone with Mike.  Kayla or I sleep in the guest room on alternate weeks on the nights the other one has their date night with Mike.  Mike occasionally gives Kayla and I our own night out as well and he sleeps in the guest room.  It’s nice we all get to pair up and have our own one-on-one time.  We also all three go out on occasion when we have someone to stay with J.

SOME FURNITURE THINGS
And as part of her moving her things into our room, we went shopping this week for new sheets and bedspread and we let her pick it out.  We also got a new dresser that better compliments our decor so that Kayla could move all of her stuff into our room.  Another little thing we did is that instead of  “Kayla’s dresser” and “Jen’s dresser,” we alternated the drawers such that some of our stuff is in each dresser.  No “her’s” and “mine.”

Lastly we made room for her knick-knacks and some pictures.  Overall the feel is probably still a bit more Mike’s and I age, but it clearly has a Kayla touch.

SOME D/s THINGS
I find happiness in Kayla’s happiness and in all her
growth and happiness our relationship has brought her.   Further, I am so proud of Mike of finding it within himself to be able to give Kayla what she needs and desires – even when those things differ from what I need and desire.  It can’t be easy to deal with two women who have different needs – but it sure helps when, in our case, the two women share a #1 need of pleasing him.

Their D/s has continued to evolve and has a lot more M/s elements to it.  I joke that Kayla doesn’t breath without Mike’s permission.  That’s an obvious overstatement, but, there isn’t much she can do without his permission or command.  From speaking when he is around, to eating, to using the restroom – you can pretty much name it.  

EQUITY IN OUR MARRIAGE
Overall our “open” marriage means we were open to all the things that we have subsequently experienced since adopting DD. 

  • Open to people – obviously the deep relationship with Kayla, and the sexual/friendship relationships with John, Donna, and Matt. 
  • Open to life –  Our recent adoption of nudism is a good example of us finding something we weren’t even looking for.

EQUITY FOR KAYLA?
How does Kayla feel about her relationship with Mike and I?  I shared that she is happy and fulfilled, but what specifically does she find fulfilling.  I asked her.

In Mike – she admits there is a bit of a fulfilling father-figure to him.  His intense interest in who she is and how she feels, and his eagerness, not just willingness, to focus on her needs.  She felt these things even when she was a little girl, and those feelings ended up serving as the foundation for her puppy love to become amorous and more.

She loves serving him, and craves his approval.  At first it devastated her when he disapproved of something (punished her).  That’s why she use to be a big crier.  But she quickly learned that the thrill of doing better, serving him better, and being the person she desires to be, all make the punishments worth it.  She learned they didn’t mark a failure as much as mark an opportunity. 

She still tends to be a bit of crier, but she says her tears are different.  They are often out of immense thankfulness and joy.  A recognition that she is worthy of his guidance, expectations, and love.  I know that phrase probably sickens those who are unfamiliar with DD or D/s.  But I completely understand why she feels that way. 

In me – Kayla also admits I serve a a bit of a mother figure to her, more so than she says Mike serves as a father figure.  Probably because she feels a bit closer to her own father than her own mother.   Kayla says she yearned for a mother figure. Someone to show pride when she did well, give unconditional acceptance, even when she did “dumb shit” as she puts it.  Someone who cares when she suffered and who not only made efforts to help her feel better, but whose efforts actually succeeded in doing so.

Yeah, basically all the stuff a mom would do, she said she got that from me. And like with Mike, those things preceded our “adult’ relationship.  We were those things to her when she was 11, 12, 13, etc.  Again, all serving as a foundation for a love that eventually turned amorous.      

And just to clarify, Kayla said while she feels “let down” by her parents, they were not abusive in the typical meaning of the word.  Numb, not caring, not nurturing, yes – so she feels fortunate they were not abusive other than the abuse of disinterest.

WHAT NEXT?
Who knows what’s next…or even if there is a next.  But whether or not there is, or whatever it may be, I know we are receptive to exploration – so much so that if only one of us wants to explore, they are free to do so, without the others.

I believe the roles, responsibilities, and relationships that Mike and I have, with each other and with others, is highly equitable.  But, what if Mike or I wanted something that wasn’t equitable?   See that?  A nice segue into what I alluded to in the prior post regarding DD sympatico. . .  Next post, I promise!

260. More Mike, Jen, & Kayla: Equity vs. Equality

260

OPEN MARRIAGE
Labels are always tricky.  I don’t like the word “open” in the context of my marriage.  It infers “always open” as in, no barriers to entry and just picking up whatever the wind blows in.  It’s not like that.

It is open in this context – we are open to the concept that love is not finite nor needs to be confined to just two people.  My marriage indeed has barriers – say, four walls and a roof – it is just that the doors aren’t sealed shut.   We are open to answering a knock and evaluating whether or not we let them in.

ANSWERING QUESTIONS
As we are now open about Kayla, a few brave souls have asked questions – both people in my family and, during our vacation, some of E’s family.  Neither Mike, Kayla, or I had any qualms about answering any questions. and most were directed to me.  I think being the wife they felt I had some sort of aggrieved status that made my answers more credible, or at least more interesting.  

Many of the questions inferred concerns which fell into the same three buckets as what my sister’s expressed about my DD.  It’s degrading, it’s unfair, it’s unhealthy.  I used some of the same responses I used on my sisters as shared in Post 136. 

People seemed generally receptive.  They at least seemed to respect that I had thought through those issues and at least reconciled them for myself.  I learned if I answer their questions truthfully and with conviction, they quickly go from being concerned to simply being curious.  That curiosity often led to discussions about our views on relationships in general.

As I mentioned, I used an approach similar to that in Post 136 in answering their questions.  However, as it just so happens, I came across an additional way I can express myself going forward and I wanted to share it. 

INSPIRATIONAL CREDIT
I credit livingwithx.wordpress.com as my inspiration (i.e., I copied a lot).  I encourage you to read his About section.   I love to reflect and get all esoteric – but I know I do it in a wordy and rambling sort of way.  I appreciate his ability to be succinct.  What takes me an entire post to try to convey, he accomplishes in a few words or bullet points.

The concerns people expressed to me were often rooted in confusing  FAIRNESS with SAMENESS (which I covered in Post 136).  But it is deeper than that, and livingwithx explained it in a way that I feel was more eloquent and powerful than delineating fairness from sameness.  Their concerns were also rooted in confusing EQUITY with EQUALITY.

You can pretty much substitute his word, Equity, with my word, Fairness, as well as his word, Equality, for my word, Sameness.  It isn’t so much the labels that were powerful to me, it was in how livingwithx defined them.  

Equity is giving your relationship everything it needs to be successful.
Equality is making sure everyone in the relationship is being treated the same.

It’s simple. In your relationship, do you value success, or do you value sameness?  The answer seems obvious, but society conditions us to focus on the latter.  People are quick to identify the injustice of the smallest inequality.  So much so that they often overlook the devastation that comes from a lack of equity. 

As I illustrated to my sisters in Post 136, their drive for equality in their relationship has led to a lot of inequities.  I am not saying they are miserable — they are happy in their marriages.  But I am saying their relationships with their husbands could be more fulfilling (and they agree!).   And part of the reason is their focus on equality over equity.

Next time I am posed with a “Kayla” question, I think I will start it with a statement that in my relationship with Mike, we value success over sameness.  Then let the conversation go from there.  I believe most people agree they want the former, not the latter.  If so, then it is simply about finding what it is that your relationship needs, and go for it.  So did my relationship actually “need” Kayla?   More on that in a bit. 

WHAT DOES EQUITY REQUIRE?
Many people have relationships where they settle for less than what their needs require.

Ouch!  I think that deserves repeating.   Many people have relationships where they settle for less than what their needs require.

Why do people stay in such relationships?  At least try to invest the equity it takes to improve things.  As someone who has always been very self-reflective and in constant state of investing equity, it is hard for me to relate to someone accepting an equal relationship over one that is equitable.

I’ll admit though that my investments in equity didn’t always pay off.  Partly because I wasn’t being honest with myself regarding what I really needed and partly because I wasn’t being honest with Mike in communicating what I thought I needed (i.e. I lacked vulnerability).  Oh, and partly because Mike wasn’t in an equitable state of mind because he was also focused on “equality” plus, he wasn’t always open and honest about what he needed (i.e he lacked vulnerability).  So yeah, just wanting and seeking equity doesn’t mean you’ll get it.

So if equity isn’t about seeking everything your relationship needs to be successful, what is it?   Oh!  It is about finding what it needs to be successful.  How do you do that?  It’s a learning process.  So how do you learn that?

IT STARTS WITH YOU – YOU ARE #1
I know it sounds selfish, but first, you have to know what you want and then, you must be willing to ask for what you want.  Simply put, you need to find a partner that fulfills YOUR NEEDS.  Nothing really selfish in that.  That is relationship 101.  Why would you want a partner that doesn’t do that?

In order to have your needs fulfilled, you have to communicate them (i.e. you have to be vulnerable).  My plethora of vulnerability posts can be found in the Finding My Happiness section of my Shortcuts.

IT THEN TURNS TO THE NEEDS OF THE OTHER
While it starts with you, it doesn’t end with you.   Equity requires that you focus on the needs of the relationship, which means – others in the relationship.  In order to have your needs fulfilled you have to be willing to fulfill your partner’s needs as well.  It is through that emotional and physical investment of fulfilling each other’s needs that you create EQUITY.  It doesn’t matter if the emotional and physical investments of each person were not EQUAL.    

In our case, there was a change in what I needed from our relationship and my life.  That change happened to involve DD.  I had to understand it first, then had to communicate it – that is, I had to ask for it.  That understanding/asking is laid out in my first half-dozen or so posts.

I was then fortunate enough to have a partner in Mike who was willing to invest his equity (efforts, emotions, actions, ) in fulfilling my needs as he saw that there was potential for my equity (efforts, emotions, actions) to fulfill his needs.   And what if there is a situation where partners don’t agree on the equity?   That’s where communication and give and take have to come in, and in our case, Mike’s role as HOH comes in.

What if you are having too many situations where we can’t agree things are equitable?  To me the result is that the relationship can’t be fulfilling.  Someone – maybe everyone – is settling for less than their needs require.  You can only do that for so long before resentment builds, leading to a downward spiral that self destructs the relationship.

DID MY RELATIONSHIP “NEED” KAYLA?
You can’t always define everything your relationship needs. It is more about addressing each of life’s situations and opportunities as they come.  So we didn’t “need” a third and then go looking for one.   Instead, our relationship has a need to remain open and honest about everyone’s wishes and desires.  This leads us to be open to life’s possibilities…in this case, the possibility of a third, such that when the right situation presented itself, it happened.  

Does that mean we are open to a fourth?  Why stop there.  A fifth?  Well, sure, why not? I don’t foresee that happening, but I know our relationship will take whatever path it needs to take to ensure success.  I can’t imagine how more people would add to our success, but frankly, I could have never imagined how Kayla could have done so.

So that is my long-winded way of laying out my thoughts on my marriage.  I don’t know that I specifically answered how it is that Kayla fits in to our “equity”  Or how say, John & Donna, or our overall sex life,  Matt, nudism, and oh yeah, and Domestic Discipline – how does all of that fit into our “equity?”    I think the simplest answer is, “It just works for us.”  Wow. This entire post could have probably been just those 5 words.  

With that settled. . . what of my inference to Mike’s Dominance perhaps evolving beyond where I would like it to be?   Well, that all makes for a good next post!

NEXT: 261.  A bit more on Kayla

253. What to title this one?

253

Uh, I cover a couple of different things in this post and struggled with a title.  What do you think of my solution?

I wrote in my last post about Matt inviting me to go to the coast with him.   When the idea first came up and Mike said he wanted me to go, I was very quick with a “Yes, Sir.”  It was more out of habit than out of a desire to go.  When I gave it some thought, I realized I would rather be at T1’s for the weekend than with Matt.  (Per my last post, we spent almost every weekend in May helping out at T1’s new house).  I like Matt, but I enjoy my family more, and have really enjoyed the time with T1, E, and her cousin’s family.

MIKE WANTS ME TO GO
I was going to ask Matt to reschedule our trip, but, before I could do that Mike said something that made me reconsider.  Mike mentioned how he thought it would be good for me to have that extended time with Matt and that it would be good for Kayla to have some time around family without me there.

“Without me there!” I imagine that sounds harsh.  It isn’t in the context from which I knew he was speaking.  Although we are no longer hiding our relationship with Kayla, it is easy for her to be made to feel like a “third wheel” or somehow in a “second class” relationship to what Mike and I have.

Don’t get me wrong – Mike and I have been married 26 years and what Kayla has with him and with me is nothing compared to our marriage.  No matter what any of us do, nothing will change the fact that the relationship Mike and I have trumps any relationship any of us have with anyone else.  (ug, you know, I don’t think I can ever use the word “trump” again.  It no longer connotes “rank above” and simply connotes “rank” – as in the slang meaning of something horrible, disgusting, and sick).  I digress.

My point is the unbreakable and enduring relationship Mike and I have doesn’t need to be rubbed in Kayla’s face.  And she deserves the opportunity to explore facets of her relationship with Mike in ways that don’t always involve me.  Mike and I have often talked about this and is why we have designated date nights with him and that Kayla sometimes goes with him on business trips.  And at least once a month Kayla and I go out on an official “date.”  We both love Kayla and want her to feel wanted, appreciated, and loved.

It is in THAT context that I fully understood what Mike was saying.  Thus, I decided that my desires to be at T1’s were less important than my desire to give that experience to Kayla.  Kayla deserves the opportunity to experience Mike’s attention and affection around family without me there and when else might that opportunity come?

It made me feel good knowing that I was not only going with Matt because it was what Mike wished (and doing as he wishes always tickles my special spot), but I was also doing it for Kayla, who I love and care about.  On top of all of that, I enjoy my time with Matt and a weekend at the coast with no kids or worries?  Well, duh!   Sign me up!

MY WEEKEND WITH MATT
It was fun.  My mind drifted at times back to Mike and the family, but I took advantage of my time away.  I got a massage, got some sun, and of course, Matt and I had lots of sex.

The more time I spend with Matt the more I have realized something.  I wish he was more different from Mike.  In some ways he has the same easy-going personality.  They share a similar demeanor.  I mean, if I am going to explore outside my marriage, I kind of wish I was exploring vastly different terrain.  Not to say they are totally alike – but still. 

I enjoy my time with Matt but I wouldn’t say I love him.  Fond of him, yes.  But love?  No.  And we have talked about this.  We joke that in some ways were are glorified fuck-buddies (Mike allowed me to include that since that is indeed factual – we do joke about that).  It is more than just sex, but perhaps not by much!  Ha.   Anyway, as long as Matt and I are on the same page about it, and Mike as well, then it is all good.  

DAD, IS KAYLA YOUR GIRLFRIEND?
So how did that weekend without me go at T1’s?   It went great.   Mike was outwardly affection with Kayla…holding hands, quick little pecks on the lips, and of course the sleeping arrangement included them sleeping together.  It prompted J to ask, “Dad, is Kayla your girlfriend?”

While we haven’t been hiding things from J, we never blatantly told him anything like we did with T1, T2, and others.  We felt simply letting things “be” and allowing his awareness to evolve was a better approach then sitting him down and telling him about it.  Telling him something is always like a line in the sand for him.  Had we just told him, it would be like, “before we talked, Kayla was just Kayla, but as of this moment, it has changed, and she is now our girlfriend.”  

It would have been jarring for him.  His mind would have tried to fill in any uncertainty about what “girlfriend” meant.  This lack of sureness would have been very anxiety inducing (I’ve written about his special needs).   Thus, it was simply better for him to witness and experience what it means for us to love Kayla before actually putting a label on it.  Applying a label to something he already knows and has experienced is a clarifying event, versus the anxiety inducing event of hearing the label and being left to wonder what that label really means.

So what did Mike say?  Mike told him, “Yes, she is mom and dad’s girlfriend.  We both love her very much.”  To that, J just said, “Okay, I thought so.”  And that was it.  And believe me, if J had any unresolved emotions he would make it abundantly clear.  And while he doesn’t always clearly verbalize his emotions,  what he can’t verbalize will manifest itself in a variety of neurotic ways.  And Mike said he was not only fine in his response, but remained calm and happy the entire weekend.

An interesting aside is that J didn’t question my love for Kayla – he wasn’t thrown by Kayla being my girlfriend too.  However, he probably didn’t fully connect the dots about what that means about my sexuality.  We aren’t going to connect them until he presents them for connection.  I suspect that realization will come soon enough, but again, it will be in the context of what he has witnessed and experienced regarding a warm, loving, and fun relationship and not just some label.  

Of course, some of J’s happiness may be in that J is in love for the first time — with E’s 11 year-old niece!   But that’s a whole other story and post!   And it is rated PG!  I felt compelled to state that right away.  The thought of letting the imagination run wild for some of you kinky f’s is just not acceptable when my child is concerned!   

Of course, when it comes to anything about me, or Mike and I, well, feel free to imagine away!

Next:  254. Dating: Teens/pre-teen? Nudism? Disability? ???

244. Part 2 – I got a boyfriend

I split this in two posts as there is a lot to explore on my attraction to Matt.

CAN I DATE MATT?
A great discussion ensued when I asked Mike if I could have a date night with Matt.  A very straightforward and calm discussion.  It was the only detailed discussion we have had on this topic thus far.  Not that we don’t talk about it, but thus far we haven’t had a need to go back to re validate feelings or concerns.  It’s early, so that will probably occur at some point.  But I recognize that it is atypical that we addressed our current feelings in a single discussion.  It illustrates where Mike and I are in our relationship.   

We didn’t leave anything unsaid but frankly didn’t have to say much.  We said what we were thinking and feeling so there is no need to keep rehashing it until/unless those thoughts and feelings change.  Mike knows he is not just my priority, but I am his.  He can say no, say yes, change his mind at any time, and I will accept it.

In reflection, the weirdest thing about my discussion with Mike is that is didn’t feel weird at all.  I wasn’t concerned about Mike feeling jealous and he wasn’t showing any signs of it either.  Just a normal conversation.  Weird indeed.

MIKE ALLOWS IT
Mike said I could have my date night with Matt – make that nights!   I have to text him to keep him informed of what we were doing – text him if we arrive or leave a restaurant, movie, etc.  And of course, let him know when we get to his place and are going to have sex.  I am to call him afterwards and tell him what sexual acts we did.

So is Mike a cuck?  I’ve used that term before but it was jokingly.  It really doesn’t apply to Mike.  Cuckolding is more about deriding the husband and there is no derision going on here.  The accurate term to describe Mike’s kink regarding this is to say he is into candaulism.  The accurate term to describe my kink regarding this is to say I am a into being a slut.  Ha!   I don’t mind owning that term.  

DATES WITH MATT
So Matt and I went out.  I was very clear with Matt regarding what our relationship could and couldn’t be.  I love Mike in insane and immeasurable ways and would never leave him in a million years.  But that doesn’t mean Matt and I can’t enjoy each other’s company whenever we could, including having sex.  Matt seems to understand it and we seem to be on the same page.

I had a second date night with Matt late last week, and Mike has said he would like it to be a weekly thing, with us alternating whose place we go to for sex.  Matt agreed – on our next date night in two days we will come back to my house after going out.

The dates were great.  I really enjoyed myself and Matt’s company.  I enjoyed texting Mike and I know he enjoyed receiving them.  And as he requested, I called him after Matt and I had sex and was explicit in sharing what we did.

MATTS THOUGHTS
Matt added something interesting.  He told Mike he only wants to have sex with me.  He doesn’t want to have sex with Kayla and he doesn’t want to join us at John and Donna’s.  Simply put, he will have sex with me either alone or with Mike watching/participating.  If Kayla is there, Mike can have sex with her but he won’t.  

His reasons were that he enjoys the sex with me the most and as twisted as it sounds, wants to be “exclusively” for me.  How sweet.  I know it took a lot for him to be willing to state this.  I am sure he had concern for how Mike or me might react.  It actually makes me feel better about his readiness to get into a relationship like this.  I would be concerned if he simply just shrugged and said, “okay” to everything.  He has needs to be confident to share his needs.

His statement prompted me to recheck in with Matt regarding my intentions to make sure we are on the same page.  Matt said he has no notions of “taking me away” and he wants to enjoy whatever time we get to have together.  He was uncomfortable having sex with Kayla due to her age as his daughter is actually older than Kayla.  Fair enough.   The most interesting comment was the he said he doesn’t like watching me have sex with John.  When he watched me having sex with John he said I don’t have the same “look” about me that I do when he or Mike has sex with me.

I wasn’t aware that I had that “look” when I had sex with him, but, he is right.  As I wrote previously, there is a growing element of intimacy…more emotion, when Matt and I have sex.  And of course, it is there with Mike.  But John?  It is more just physical.  Still feels good, but more mechanical, less uninhibited and emotional.  Again, how sweet of him to notice.

I can’t resist poking fun at the absurdity of my sex life.  How sweet it is for my boyfriend to notice that I am more emotionally invested when I am having sex with him or my husband when compared to John.  Isn’t that special?  Ha!

WEEKLY DATES
My dates with Matt won’t necessarily be weekly, but weekly-ish.  Between my yoga classes, volunteering on the weekend, and various other appointments, keeping up with my household duties and obligations are the priority over Matt.   There is also the date night Kayla and I each have on alternating weeks with Mike.  The weekend after next the four of us plan a double date (J stays the night at a cousin’s).  That was Mike’s idea! 

Just thinking about the double date gives me a tingle.  What’s the opposite of cuck?  Whatever it is, that’s what I feel when Mike watches me have sex with Matt.  Way more than the feeling of having sex with John in front of Mike.  Mike knows that Matt and I are attracted to each other.  This increases Mike’s pleasure in watching and increases my pleasure in being watched by him.  

And I get a tingle just thinking about a date night with Mike watching.  Holding Matt’s hand while Mike holds Kayla’s.  While it may look like we are separate in that moment, the truth is we are both getting off on watching the other enjoy themselves.   

SUBMISSIVENESS?
I remain submissive to Mike, even when Matt is around.  I am not submissive to Matt.  He is not “my Sir.”  I think that is also part of my attraction to Matt.  I get to have a relationship and temporarily leave behind some of my submissiveness. 

Don’t misinterpret that as me wanting to get away from being submissive to Mike.  I love being submissive to Mike.  It’s just a nice break.  And it comes at a time I am so entrenched in my submission that it hasn’t impacted my submissive mindset at home.  I am able to get right back into it.  I don’t know if a year ago I could have done that.

Of course, just being with Matt is a submissive act as it only happens because Mike allows it and wants it.  Although now I want it too!

Next: Synchronizing Expectations

243. I got a boyfriend!

243

RETRO JENNY
A quick trip back to pre-DD Jenny.  I was a vanilla housewife.  College educated, worked for several years before I was fortunate enough to be a stay at home mom, conventional sex life that did not leave me yearning.  My sexual history was pretty unremarkable.  Okay, so the
skinny dipping and shaving party aside, it was pretty unremarkable.  

ALONG CAME A SPIDER
Okay, not a spider.  Then along came Domestic Discipline.  When I
first embraced the idea of DD, sexual exploration was not on my radar.  It wasn’t about sex.  So how did we get here?    

DD required Mike and I to tear down everything we use to keep from each other — things as small as our pet peeves and peculiarities, to the big things – our thoughts, our dreams, and yes, our sexual desires.  We basically opened up our “secret selves” to each other and the results were amazing. 

It wasn’t just about sharing sexual desires.  We shared our likes and dislikes about everything, unfiltered, without apology, and without trying to rationalize them.  Sometimes dreams and desires aren’t rational.  That’s part of the reason we are so reluctant to share them.

Through this sharing we truly became one – not in terms of sameness, but in terms of one complete and true understanding of each other.  I see the “one you” in him and he sees the “one you” in me.  Say what? 

I WANT YOU, YOU, YOU!
I’ve read that there are three “you’s:”

  1. The Private you.  (The you you think you are).
  2. The Public you.  (The you as others see you).
  3. The Secret You.  (The you you REALLY are).

How sad that we often don’t let anyone into #3, even the people we love and trust the most.  Maybe a peek, but full access?  Not likely.  Too much potential for judgement, perhaps even rejection.  But keeping #3 secret can be toxic.  Our unstated needs and desires can lead to passive aggressiveness or at least an unfulfilled feeling that may manifest itself in unhealthy ways.  Perhaps an anxiousness, emptiness or unexplained yearning.  We then may take on a number of bad habits to try to cope.

DD forced me to collapse my #3 and it was a bonus that Mike eventually collapsed his.   We had to calibrate our needs, desires, and dreams to each other, forcing a merger of our #1 and #2.   We became fully transparent to each other.  We fully shared our complete “you” which was now “one you.”  And we fully embrace, admire, cherish, respect, and love what the other has shared.  As I have written before, we’ve become one, but not the same.

I believe this “ultimate” level of oneness has resulted in our highly identifying,..perhaps completely identifying..with the experiences of the other.  We feel vicariously through each other, but it is deeper than just imagining.  It is feeling, sensing, and rejoicing in the experiences of the other.  I didn’t know such a thing existed, let alone would be possible. And this oneness is what has taken us places and continues to take us places.

WHERE IT TOOK US
I never expected what was to come regarding John and Donna.  I never expected to add another woman, let alone our former babysitter Kayla, to my relationship with my husband.  I never expected the level of sexual exploration that Mike and I have taken.  And now, I never expected to be attracted to another man.

I don’t state that with an ominous tone, so if your inner voice read it that way, read it again with a tone of wonderment and excitement.  Because just like the other places our DD has taken us, I look upon this new development i wonder and excitement. 

MATT
About four and half months ago Mike “suggested” that I have sex with his friend Matt.  I’ve known Matt casually for about 10 years – he used to work with Mike.  I would see him at company functions and he and his then wife attended a party we threw at our house.

He divorced about two years ago, is 51, kids are grown and on their own.  Since getting “re-acquainted,” I obviously have been able to get to know him better.  At first I didn’t think anything noteworthy about him.  He is quiet, reserved.  Frankly, can be boring.

He has a quick, dry wit and is caring and compassionate.  In a lot of ways he reminds me of how Mike used to be when we first got married.  There is this “aw shucks” innocence, and this shyness that you pierce if you simply talk to him first.

While some of this is just the way he is – he was never known as having a boisterous personality – some of it is the situation.  I mean, he is having sex with his friend’s wife with his friend’s permission.  His awkwardness and seemingly lack of confidence was him simply trying to figure out exactly what Mike, or me, would allow him to do.   He has since loosened up a little.  

SEX WITH MATT
The
first time we had sex was in his bedroom while Mike waited in the living room.  The next time I had sex with him was when he joined us for some fun at John and Donna’s.  He had sex with Kayla and I, but not Donna.  John had only met him once before and felt he needed to know him better.   

Matt’s been over to our house once where we had sex and Mike and I have been back to his apartment several more times.  Mike has also stopped by Matt’s as part of a date night with Kayla.  So Kayla and Matt have also had sex when I wasn’t around. 

There were two times when all four of us were together Mike and Matt would swap between Kayla and I, and me and Kayla would also “entertain” them with some woman-on-woman play.  So in other words – yeah, plenty of sex. 

My favorite thing to do sexually with Matt is to be on the bed on my back, legs spread and dangling over the side.  He is standing and entering me.  Mike is behind me, often holding my arms above my head, watching and talking to me as Matt goes in and out.

At first, sex with Matt felt much like sex with John.  More mechanical, more focused on my own pleasure and whether or not Mike was enjoying watching.  Not really focused on Matt.  Not emotionally connected to him.

But the way Mike was reacting…Mike was much more intimate, holding my hands or arms while Matt entered me.  Mike talks a lot to me during it, and it is just all more intimate.  I didn’t sense it at first, but Matt is part of that intimate feeling.  Yes, the last couple of times I had sex with Matt I felt very connected to him.

GROWING ATTRACTION
I didn’t fully realize that I was attracted to him until a few weeks ago.  Mike had a short out-of-town business trip – gone for just one night.  He said he asked Matt if he would stay the night with me at our house.  Matt would either leave before J got up or after J left for school.  Matt couldn’t do it as he had a family commitment.  I remember feeling so disappointed and it was in that disappointment that I realized I had feelings for Matt.

I found myself thinking about when we might get together next.  I realized that I wanted to see him and could not wait for Mike to arrange the next rendezvous.   What is more surprising to me than feeling attracted to Matt is that I didn’t hesitate to admit to it, whether to myself or Mike. 

“Mike, I think I like Matt.  Like, really like him.  I am asking for your permission to go out with him.”  

“You mean like your own date night?” was Mike’s response.  

“Exactly.”  

More on my next post!  I’ll try to get it up this afternoon!

NEXT:  244. I got a boyfriend – Part 2

232. Our Final “outing”

We told our middle child about our relationship with Kayla and a bit more about our dynamic.  If that wasn’t enough, we shared our plans to meet E’s family at a naturist resort, likely in June.   

WHAT WE SAID RE KAYLA
We simply said that our relationship has evolved such that he would likely best understand it as a polyamory thing.  I didn’t explicitly say it was sexual, but it was very clearly understood as you will soon read.

We told him we wouldn’t be hiding our relationship from anyone — not that we would shout it from the rooftops, but we wouldn’t go out of our way to hide it. 

WHAT WE SAID RE D/s
We had already shared the basics back in December and he was able to see it in practice, so he pretty much gets the picture.  We added was that Kayla was part of this “deferring to, and service to”, his dad.  We also injected the word “accountable” which I don’t think we had used before.  He didn’t ask in what ways we are accountable to his dad and that’s fine by me.  We wanted him to have a general understanding and it seems to us that he does.  If he asks more questions later, we will answer them.   

WHAT WE SAID RE NUDIST RETREAT
We brought up the opportunity to meet E’s family by having a family vacation along with them at a resort, likely in early June… and, that it was a nudist resort. 

We talked about meeting E’s cousin’s family who were practicing nudists.    We shared with him that we partook in the clothing free option.  We explained we aren’t planning to be clothes free around the house, but that there may be more nudity as we also may not rush to wear clothes.  He connected the dots back to his experience of seeing Kayla naked. 

T2 REACTS RE KAYLA
He said he basically already knew – sort of!   Turns out, one his friends is the brother of Michaud’s roommate.

T2 never met Michaud, but has met the roommate.  By chance the group of them were talking about relationships and the roommate mentioned Michaud dating a “poly” girl who was also in a relationship with an older couple.  The roommate mentioned her name – Kayla – but at the time T2 didn’t think it was the Kayla he knew. 

When T2 eventually learned that Kayla was dating someone named Michaud, he immediately connected everything, including the fact the “older couple” was likely his parents!  He didn’t say anything to anyone…as he didn’t know what to say nor really want to know more.

T2 tends to be pretty reserved.  He will say what is on his mind but you have to work at prying it out.    We weren’t expecting much behind a nod and an “okay,” but he actually asked a lot of engaging questions – more than T1 asked us when we told him.  This was welcomed but was also surprising.

T2 bluntly said, “So, you all have sex and everything like a typical relationship?”   Our answer was a simple, “Yes, we do.”  He said it was “Pretty wild,” and “a lot to process,” but it didn’t bother him.  He joked he didn’t know he had such “trendy” parents.

I told him it wasn’t about trying to be in vogue. Things just evolved and we didn’t feel it was necessary to suppress our feelings.  While the desire not to suppress our feelings may be helped by increasing social acceptance, social views are not what created our love and affection.  We also apologized for not saying something sooner as part of reason for telling him was so that he didn’t find out some other way.

He did ask the, “isn’t she young for you guys” question… although his version was, “aren’t you old for her?”   He was more interested into what the appeal was for Kayla, which she answered.  She reminded him of her lifelong attraction to people older than her and the affection she has always felt from and towards us became something much deeper.  She said that perhaps it is the age difference that allows her to connect to us in a way she can’t with anyone else.  

He did ask about the long-term plans and we all admitted that those were up in the air and would evolve however they are meant to evolve. Oh, and he asked me if this means I was bisexual and have I always been that way.  Very pointed questions I wasn’t expecting, but I was happy to answer.   Yes, and yes, with the caveat it was something I haven’t explored since college.  

T2 REACTS TO D/s
He didn’t react beyond an “okay.”  We weren’t anticipating much here since he had been witness to my more subservient role in the household.

T2 REACTS TO NUDIST RETREAT
It wasn’t a complete shocker.  T1 had told him before that E’s family “used to vacation at a nude resort growing up.” (mild understatement to say the least).  T2 took it to mean as a one-off thing, not an actual lifestyle.  So he was a little surprised, but not that much and gave it his typical well thought out and elaborate response of “Cool.”  

He was “game” for attending if his work situation allows it.  That was great to hear — we were thinking it was 50/50 as to whether or not he would be open to going.  The shocker was he asked if he could bring his girlfriend.  Now that was awkward for us!

TABLES TURNED
Here we are expressing our “progressive” lifestyle regarding our relationships, plus we already having T1 living with his girlfriend (now fiancée) — yet, we were hesitant to have T2’s girlfriend along.  What of the sleeping arrangements?   I am fine with them having sex (which they have had), but, having her share a room with him makes me feel like I am somehow facilitating it.   T2 just turned 22.

Of course, when Mike said it felt a bit “creepy” to him, T2 was quick to add in jest, “You mean, like mom and dad sleeping with the babysitter?”   Touché

This led to a very frank discussion about a variety of things.  T2 shared some stuff about his prior relationship (he dated his last girlfriend for a long time), stuff about himself, and his outlook on relationships, etc.   It was all a good family bonding experience and at times, probably a bit “creepy” for all of us.  

In the end, we agreed that if he is able to come, is girlfriend is welcomed.  T said he doesn’t have any qualms about asking her, but that she may not want to or be able to attend.  We shall see. 

And in fact, apparently we shall see an awful lot!  Ha.  That’s a nudist joke in case you missed it.  

IN CONCLUSION
It went well, which I expected, but it went even better than any of us expected.  We are all feeling very good and very excited about being more ourselves around friends and family.   Technically this isn’t our “final outing” as we have other family members to deal with regarding our relationship with Kayla.  But the kids were defintely the priority and the most meaninful for us.  The others will come in time and frankly, while we obviously prefer acceptance, their reactions are less important to us.

Next: 233. Meet the Nudies

229. Heading to Splitsville?

229

Drama alert!  I know I often paint a picture that we have achieved some nirvana in my household.  Poly-bliss, D/s perfection!  Of course not!  As I recently wrote, we are human and thus subject to normal human frailty.

We’ve hit a little bump involving Kayla and her boyfriend, Michaud.  I wrote before that Kayla asked us to allow Mike in our “circle of trust.”  (our nickname for those with whom we engage with sexually, currently consisting of the three of us, John, Donna, and most recently, Matt).  I won’t rehash our concerns (you can read the post), but Mike told Kayla no; but left it open for the future if we could get to know him better. 

In the last month we have been able to get to better know Michaud.  He is nice – good boyfriend material for Kayla.  But that is different from “circle of trust” material.   He just doesn’t seem comfortable with it all – which is totally understandable. 

The frustrating part to me was that he would say he was “good with it” but I just didn’t feel it, nor did Mike.   It feels like Michaud is going through the motions, trying to say the “right” things, but really isn’t happy.  Not just unhappy with thoughts of our “circle,” but unhappy with his relationship with Kayla.  

I can be very direct and would ask him very blunt questions, but frankly, Mike asked him way tougher questions than I did.   But Kayla got annoyed at me for “intimidating” Michaud.  That’s never my intent, but if honest intimidates (and it does!), then I am guilty.

I believe it serves no useful purpose to minimize what it is we are considering here.  It is serious stuff, at least to Mike and I.   If it is going to sour, then it needs to be now, not later.   There is no benefit of putting lipstick on the pig and calling it something it isn’t.  He needs to be honest with us and with himself.  

Before Kayla brought any of this up to Michaud, we warned her of what might happen if we “rejected” him.   And it isn’t like we are rejecting him – we are still evaluating him.  Kayla finds it easier to blame me that his “evaluation” isn’t going well.   

THE METAMOUR – POLY PLOT THICKENS
Adding to this is that Michaud has started dating another girl – with Kayla’s full knowledge and consent (and initial encouragement).  Thus the growing complexity of metamours!

We will call her “X.” 

X is aware of Kayla and they have met several times.  Kayla’s take on X is that she is intrigued because it is “trendy” to date someone who is dating someone else. But she feels X doesn’t have the right heart or mindset for poly. 

X is putting a lot of pressure on Michaud to spend more time with her and less with Kayla.  And Kayla feels X is trying to get Michaud to dump her.  Of course, Michaud says that isn’t true, thus Kayla feels like he is calling her paranoid.  Adding to that, Kayla then feels Michaud is purposely ignoring X’s subterfuge, making her angry at Michaud.   

The appearance of X makes the timing of Kayla’s request suspect.  I accept Kayla’s word that these aren’t connected, but I also know sometimes our motivations aren’t always apparently to ourselves.  Would she be asking for his inclusion had he not found a second girlfriend?  X has made it clear she isn’t quite comfortable with this poly-thing, so having Michaud in our circle clearly has implications for his relationship with X.   It’s just all to potentially messing — that is not the right foundation for admittance into our circle?  Nope!  No way! 

Then, Kayla has said Michaud is getting more annoyed with her whenever she has other obligations, especially with us/Mike.   Michaud got very annoyed with her when Kayla shared the nude resort plans with him.  His reaction made her feel badly such that she asked Mike if she could invite him and they would get their own room.  Mike agreed, thinking perhaps it would be a good step towards us getting more comfortable with him.

Ultimately it made things worse.  Michaud said no.  He was not only upset that Kayla didn’t invite him to start with, but that she had to get Mike’s permission to do so.  And there it was.  It is becoming clear that Kayla’s relationship with Mike is wearing on Michaud.

There’s more examples of this – but simply, currently Michaud can not be in our “circle,” but more so, maybe he isn’t prepared to continue his relationship with Kayla. 

Neither Kayla nor Michaud are ready to admit that things are untenable.  It frustrates me a bit because to me it is very clear and they are just being dishonest with themselves.  Deep down they both see it, they just aren’t ready to admit it yet.  So instead of moving on, they are becoming increasingly passive aggressive with each other.  

Of course, Kayla doesn’t want to hear it from me.  It is easier for her to just blame me for the strain with Michaud.  I don’t like it, but that’s okay.  She knows she can feel safe in blaming me as it won’t change my love for her.   She will realize it soon enough and end things with Michaud (if he doesn’t end it first).  And she might blame me for a bit, but I believe she will soon see I had nothing to do with it. 

Adding to her feelings of acrimony towards me is that Mike actually spanked her for how she was treating me.  She got very disrespectful in one of our conversations.  Of course, she blamed me for that too.  I recognize it is easier for Kayla to blame me than it is for her to blame herself, Michaud, or Mike.  I am the safe one to blame.  I’ll accept that for now.  

My preference would be for them to realize that they give each other a lot of joy and fulfillment and thus cherish their moments together and look for more opportunities to express their love for each other.  BUT — only if that is actually how they feel.  Frankly, I don’t think it is and they just won’t admit it yet.  But their realization of it is coming soon!

Next: 230. My Happiness Formula