Category Archives: 7. Matt and other friends

Posts about Matt and other friends – some “with benefits” and some “without.”

359. Domestic Discipline will AMP YOU UP

Domestic Discipline will AMP {clap} you up!

Picking up where I left off. . .

When Chelsea arrived she emptied her suitcase and other personal items in our guest bedroom and joined us in the living room as Mike calls us together for this unique “Maintenance Session” as explained in my prior post.

And as if by magic, something unexpected happened. Something that could take months, if not years, or even a lifetime for someone to articulate to someone else. Chelsea said the most amazing and surprising thing.

As I left off in the prior post, Mike stated, “. . . I don’t ask you to be anyone other than yourself.”

Chelsea didn’t say anything right away. It’s like I could sense the wires starting to connect… zzzt, zzzt, zzzzzzt!

With the saddest face humanly possible, she mumbled,
“But. But. But, what if I’m not enough? What if there’s something wrong with me?”

And then she cried.

Mike immediately went to her and held her. He assured her that no matter what, it can only be right.

I recognized Chelsea had a lot she needed to get off her chest. I felt like the setting might be intimating for her. Seemingly ready to reveal her worst fears in life, I felt the fewer people around the better. Overcoming my predisposition to be nosy, I knew my presence wasn’t valuable. While Kayla is her best friend, I sensed even having her around might be a bit much. Chelsea said what she said to Mike, staring straight at him as if we weren’t even there. I asked Mike if Kayla and I could leave the room and he agreed.

I don’t have a bad relationship with Chelsea, but it hasn’t evolved to be one best suited for what it appeared she needed at that moment. I’ve never had a meaningful one-on-one discussion with her. Probably the most I ever talked to her without Mike or Kayla around was during our threesome with TJ. A totally different context!

Mike and Chelsea were left in our living room as Kayla and I retreated to our bedroom. It was about two hours before Mike came in, Chelsea in hand. He said we will watch a movie and just relax together. (We watched The One and Only Ivan. It was okay. Various sub-plots going on and worth a watch on television but I am glad we didn’t spend movie money on it. Sort of what you probably feel about reading my blog! lol). Chelsea sat on the couch between Mike and Kayla, and I was sitting in the recliner. Chelsea was gripping Mike’s hand almost like a scared child. During the movie she ended up with her head on his shoulder, and she fell asleep. It wasn’t that late. Maybe 8:30 or 8:45 p.m.

After about thirty minutes of her sleeping, Mike gently woke her and softly asked her if she would like to go to bed. She nodded and he whispered for her to get ready for bed and he would come to the room in a bit.

He went to the bedroom and didn’t return to the living room for about forty-five minutes. He asked Kayla to talk to Chelsea, so she did. It got later and later and eventually both me and Mike got ready for bed and could still hear the mumbling of Kayla and Chelsea talking.

Kayla eventually emerged and asked Mike if she could sleep with Chelsea. “As in sleep, sleep, no sex,” she clarified. She said Chelsea didn’t want to be alone. Mike agreed and oddly, he added, “And if it leads to sex, so be it. I’ll leave that up to you.”

I didn’t ask Mike to tell me what Chelsea shared. I’ve learned from my relationship with Kayla that it is best to leave it up to her to share with me what she wants. There shouldn’t be this assumption that I “deserve” or demand to know everything they discuss or do with Mike. They are free to explore and develop their relationship with him, free from my hovering around it. In this case, Mike told Chelsea he would share things with me, thus. . .

Mike told me that Chelsea indeed has a lot of “sorting out to do.” I pretty much nailed it in my assessment that she isn’t connected to what she is truly feeling or truly wants. Mike said that’s only half of it.

I don’t intend to turn my blog into the “Chelsea life story blog.” But the run down is this:

CHELSEA’S CHALLENGES
1. She’s uncertain of her sexuality
She thinks she might be gay. Bisexual for sure. Prefers women, not to say that she doesn’t love Jaime. It’s just “different, complicated, and confusing.”

2. Jaime’s fidelity
Jaime cheated on her a lot before they got married, supposedly not since. She never really reconciled it in her mind and continues to blame herself for not being enough for him during that time.

3. She fears not being enough
She loves her husband and wants him to be happy and be the one for him to be happy with. Her guilt and insecurities (my words) made her put tremendous pressure on herself and her hopes that D/s would transform their relationship for the better. She personally likes being submissive and was eager to embrace D/s. Her expectations were very high. She feels she connected with D/s and gets to be more of her true self as a submissive. This makes Jaime’s perceived rejection of it all the more painful to her.

4. She’s loves being submissive
While loving the idea of being submissive, it only has felt right to her when Mike is the one providing direction or delivering consequences. She admitted to acting up (aka “bratting”) with Jaime so that Jaime would have to take action. Instead, Jaime would often turn to Mike in frustration.

She likes submitting to Jaime, but, in her words, “he’s bad at being a Dom.” And despite all the issues, she is convinced she loves Jaime but not convinced he loves her.

5. Swinging/swap conflict
She hasn’t fully reconciled the whole swinging/swap stuff within our COT. Part of her feels it’s Jaime’s way of demonstrating she isn’t enough for him. But at the same time, she said they both found it exciting and they connected in new ways. They both were open with each other about what they did, what they felt, what they liked, what they didn’t. She cherished those conversations and it made her feel good that he enjoyed it and enjoyed her enjoying it. But she isn’t 100% convinced. Again, lots of insecurities.

6. She’s in love with Kayla
Yeah, there’s that. She admitted it.

WHAT DOES JAIME KNOW?
Mike asked her how much of this she discussed with Jaime. Virtually none!

She thinks sharing her thoughts about her sexuality would be unfair because she hasn’t figured it out herself. “What if I am wrong and he freaks out over nothing? What if he thinks it means I don’t love him or that he is inadequate in some way? What if he leaves?”

She wants a life with him, as his wife, kids, all that. My thoughts are that she’s not gay, bisexual for sure, and will hopefully come to terms with it at her own pace regarding what it means for her and her marriage.

She’s mortified to address their D/s and our COT. “What if I am right and he never wanted it or liked any of it. I feel so embarrassed for liking it myself.” My two cents is that he enjoys her submission and the COT. I think he is just as insecure as she is. That insecurity comes off as indifference. There’s just too much left unsaid between them and their individual insecurities are filling in the gaps.

She said they did have conversations about the swinging, but she never revealed her motivations behind it – motivations based on pleasing him. And while they mutually shared the genuine excitement and energy it brought to their relationship, she never told him that it also includes feelings of not being enough or being discarded. Despite her liking so many things about it, at its root it represented her failings as a wife. Those horrible feelings were conflicted with the thrill it also brought to both of them and their relationship. And her love of the eperiences with other women was conflicted with her concerns about her sexual identity.

All of this was from her eight hours with us! Things sure move fast in my kink-vortex! I’ve got a theory about why that is, but I’ll save that for some other post.

MY NEW NARRATIVE
The next day we followed through with our plans and Chelsea shadowed me much of the day, and then shadowed Kayla the next, she even saw Kayla get spanked. And I’ve now had the opportunity to talk to Chelsea one-on-one for quite awhile and I’ve adjusted my narrative about her.

She knows who she is, she’s just afraid to show it, both to herself, and to others. A fear based in her childhood that she carried forward to her marriage. Her ability to articulate what she wants is hiding behind the thinnest veneer. Once punctured, she has been very articulate, clear, and more importantly, confident.

She wants to be married to Jaime. She wants to let him lead and needs to work with him on defining what that means on his terms, not hers. She wants an open marriage, especially wants to explore her sexuality more. She understands that may be hard on Jaime as he may fear her leaving him for a woman. They’ll just have to work that out and it is no different than her fears he could leave her for another woman. “Who knows,” she said, “maybe we find a win-win and get ourselves a third!”

She likes D/s and loves the idea of submitting, to Jaime, to Mike, or to a woman. She feels the most comfortable in a submissive role, including being disciplined. She said she always felt fine being spanked as a child. Not that she enjoyed it, but that it didn’t make her feel defective and she doesn’t feel scarred by it. To her it was effective and she believes it is “appropriate for a husband to spank his wife. ”

When she said that, I was ready to denounce that concept. I don’t buy into it as being “appropriate” in the way she was using that word. She was using it as meaning “natural order of things.” Ug. That’s not my belief. I’ve ranted about that before so will spare you another rant. Suffice to say, I bit my tongue and accepted that if it was right for her, then so be it. (120. Is this submissive a feminist, and 350. Equity and Fairness)

WHAT NOW?
For now she is waiting to have her deep dive conversation with Jaime. She wants to continue talking with us, flexing her ability to articulate her feelings and better understand what it is she is feeling. And by us, I do mean us. She’s opened up to me and I think likes the attention from all three of us, especially Mike. She Facetimes every day with Jaime, and Jaime even noted her upbeat demeanor. It seems she is feeling good about the direction she is headed.

BTW, Chelsea didn’t have sex with Kayla that first night. They just cuddled and went to sleep. There’s some things that have to be sorted out there because Chelsea loves Kayla. Kayla loves her to but not in that same way, so it’s unfair to pursue the sexual activities if the feelings are unbalanced. And there is the whole thing of what role Mike plays in Chelsea’s life and her dynamic within her marriage. But all of those things flow from Chelsea first needing to establish a stronger sense of self. Once that is done, everything else should be much easier to sort out.

I’ve always stated that when you allow yourself to be vulnerable, or go down a path of exploring kinks (which is related to vulnerability), the experience serves as an AMPLIFIER for what your relationship already has. If there are fears, insecurities, and confusion, they will be amplified ten-fold. If there is trust, acceptance, and confidence, that too will be amplified ten-fold.

And Domestic Discipline amplifies all of them even more.

358. CHELSEA MOVES IN

First off, to be clear, my title of my last post was a bit of creative puffery, making something appear more alarming that it is. Mike has no intentions of Chelsea becoming a “fourth” in our marriage. Three’s Company is enough for this marriage. Let’s jump right in.

When Mike told me Chelsea would move in, before he even asked me what I thought, he shared a bit of his thinking.

He said Jaime and Chelsea were having problems and Jaime felt their problems would intensify if Chelsea were left alone while he was gone. Chelsea didn’t want to be alone that long, but didn’t have any options other than go stay with her parents, and she didn’t want to do that for many reasons.

Chelsea has physically changed a lot since mid-March. She’s gained about 35-40 pounds. From about 115 to the 150 range. She looks great as honestly, I feel she was underweight at 115. She’s 5’8. I had stated 5’9 previously, but stand corrected! She is very petite. “Small boned” as they say. So even at around 115 she didn’t look as light as she weighed, if that makes sense. Point is, she’s put on a lot of weight in a short amount of time and her current weight is still well within healthy limits. The issue is that the pace of the gain may be a symptom of something else.

Jaime also said she is drinking more. They often have wine and even a mixed drink here and there, but rarely enough to be anything more than minor-buzz-inducing. More recently she has got passed out drunk on more than one occasion.

Mike had been keeping in contact with the two of them throughout Covid, via Zoom, Facetime, and calls, and texts. Chelsea had been begging Mike to allow them to come over or for Kayla or for him to visit in person, but Mike said no.

Lastly, while Jaime said it was his idea to have her stay with us, she was 100% onboard and loved the idea. As for sex, Jaime also told Mike that he was comfortable with whatever transpired and if Chelsea was comfortable having sex with anyone, he was fine with it. He just wanted Chelsea to tell him about it.

It was clear to me that Chelsea would benefit from professional counseling, but that was not going to happen. With Jaime leaving, she needed someone there to support her right away. Friends would have to do. We would have to do. Mike said we would do the same if it were Donna, Kim,or Jill. It wasn’t about our lifestyle, it was about friends helping friends.

Okay, I am in! HOWEVER. . . how did he see us helping?

Mike’s first thought was to rely on DD. Chelsea was submitting to Jaime in that way, and pre-Covid Mike performed a lot of her discipline. She was very comfortable with Mike spanking her (in my mind, she prefers it over Jaime spanking her). Mike’s thinking and what he had discussed with Jaime and Chelsea was to approach it from a D/s perspective. Set clear rules and clear consequences for breaking the rules. And as far as sex goes, he felt Chelsea should be part of whatever she wanted to be a part of.

UG!!! NO!
I completely disagreed, to say the least (but respectfully so).

I shared with Mike that I am not convinced she is really submissive. Yes, she goes through the motions, but I don’t know that it really connects to her or fulfills her. I think that is why she hasn’t responded to Jaime’s leadership/Dominance. Not only has Jaime been inconsistent, but I think Jaime senses it isn’t what Chelsea really wants. Jaime goes along with it but he too is going through the motions, not truly fulfilled by it.

Mike was horrified by that narrative. He immediately recognized the implications if that narrative were true. That the two of them sort of fell into it because of us, and weren’t aware enough about their own feelings to realize they didn’t belong.

Keep in mind I did not, and still do not, know whether my narrative is accurate. It is only a suspicion. I have not talked or observed Jaime or Chelsea nearly as much as Mike or Kayla have. So I could be wrong, but as shared with Mike, “What are the implications if I am correct?”

Mike agreed that while she would be staying with us, our goal would be to help start to find herself and to hopefully love what she finds. In a lot of ways, it’s a bit second nature to us. It’s very much the way we parented our children, and how we always supported Kayla.

Mike talked to Jaime about our new plan of action. Jaime deferred to Mike but said it best not to tell Chelsea until she was actually staying with us. Jaime was concerned she would be heartbroken and didn’t want her to be alone. Thus, Mike waited until she stayed with us before explaining how things would be.

SHE ARRIVES
The first thing we did when she moved in was to have a “group Maintenance Session.” She loved the idea of that as she is well aware of Maintenance Sessions, although she was disappointed when this session didn’t include any spankings. The purpose of this session was to calibrate expectations. The ground rules are:

  1. She would not be subject to any disciplinary actions. That is, no spankings from Mike if she misbehaved
  2. No sex with any of us. She is free to masturbate, in private or subject to any rules Jaime has for her regarding that.
  3. The three of us would NOT perform any sexual acts in her presence.
  4. We asked her to take turns shadowing me all day, then Kayla all day. Joining us on our walks, helping us with whatever chores we had, and even witness any discipline we received. Exception is when she needed to attend class (virtually), study, or do homework.
  5. We asked her to journal extensively about her thoughts and feelings regarding what she observed and about any aspect of her life. The journal was hers, with no expectation that she share it unless she wanted to.
  6. She was encouraged to ask questions about anything and everything. That was more a rule for the three of us to follow to make sure we included her and was proactive in engaging her, asking her how she felt about certain things and hopefully get her to open up.
  7. At some point we would reconvene, throw out these rules, and talk about what made sense going forward.

The point was not to mandate much of anything, but to suggest, encourage, and leave it up to her.

Her response was interesting. She didn’t want such latitude. She said she wanted to be told how it would be. She wanted to be held accountable if she didn’t behave accordingly. She became emotional and very teary eyed. She said to Mike, “Why won’t you just let me submit to you and be like Jen and Kayla?”

I was proud of Mike’s response.

“Because you are Chelsea. If you want to submit to me, then submit to being Chelsea for me. I don’t ask Kayla to be Jen, nor Jen to be Kayla, and I don’t ask you to be anyone other than yourself.”

And as if by magic, something unexpected happened. Something that could take months, if not years, or even a lifetime for some people to realize. Chelsea said the most amazing and surprising thing.

Next post!

359. DOMESTIC DISCIPLINE WILL AMP YOU UP

357. “WE THREE” ARE NOW “WE FOUR” (temporarily?)

My prior post ended with stating I feel there is nothing that can ever mount a meaningful challenge to my perceptions about the happy, healthy, confident, secure, and fulfilled life I lead. One can never be so sure until that perception passes some tests.

{Test enters}

Remember Chelsea? Here’s a recap. Her and her husband, Jaime, are part of our Circle of Trust (COT). A group of close friends with whom we have been known to swing/swap with on occasion as well as live our kinks out in the open.

More background so I don’t repeat myself:
Post 308. Chelsea Part I. Post 329. More Immersion 2019: Playing with Friends. Post 335. The Bond of Sex.

The background is relevant to this post, I promise! And here is some more background before I get to what’s behind this post. If you want to skip to the point, then scroll down to the highlighted title after this one:

MORE BACKGROUND
I liked Chelsea from the start. My initial assessment was that she lacks a filter, which I totally relate to, and speaks her mind. Her delivery is one of inquisitiveness. She is honestly curious. I described it in a prior post as “authentic.”

First impressions are funny things.

Over time I’ve found her to be, well. . . not so authentic. I think “competitive” is the better term. Competitive for her husband’s attention, competitive in submission with Kayla and Kayla’s life in general, and competitive for Mike’s affection. That competitiveness is all a veneer to deep insecurities.

I don’t sense any nefarious intent on her part. She isn’t consciously doing it to achieve some wicked result. It’s more of a protection mechanism she has developed. My arm-chair psychoanalysis of her is that she lacks maturity and a confidence.

She doesn’t really know who she is or what she wants. She copes with this by striving to emulate others she admires and she yearns for their approval. And because she doesn’t know what truly fulfills her, she isn’t always content with whatever transpires. She sees others liking something, so she does it. She doesn’t like it, and feels inadequate, guilty, or “less than,” because it didn’t give her the fulfillment it gives others.

This adds to her feeling of inadequacy and emptiness and her response is to double-down on mirroring those she admires instead of addressing her feelings and finding what truly makes her happy. Her actions and emotions or often only mirrors, and mirrors can only do three things: reflect, distort, and break.

Phew. Yeah, and I didn’t even charge her for that analysis! Seriously, I am not so arrogant to think I am 100% correct, but that narrative fits with all that I have observed, and I tend to observe people very closely.

It would be easy to blame her upbringing. If you didn’t read the links recapping her background, the short of it is she grew up in a household where corporal punishment was a family tradition and a family affair. I don’t think that is her issue. I think a lot of pressure was put on her as the oldest daughter – be the “perfect daughter” and check all the boxes for her parent’s notion of what it means to be a girl – a notion rooted in a highly patriarchal mind set.

On the outside she seems to have it together. She is very driven to finish college. She left home at 18 to get married and spent several years working hard to be in a position to go to college. She is about half way through getting her degree and gets excellent grades. For her, I believe her drive and self-discipline in certain aspects of her life serve as an emotional cover, as does alcohol to a certain extent.

Her husband is four years older than her. 24 to 28 isn’t much of an age difference, but consider they first started dating when she was just 16 and got married a month after she graduated high school. And where Chelsea puts off an air of confidence (and it is just an air), he puts on no airs. He is fairly shy, reserved, and his lack of self confidence is apparent.

She can easily pass for 18, with some effort, even younger.   5’9 115, very small frame. Light freckles, high cheekbones..baby-face.   Visually she is in stark contrast to her burly husband who is probably about 220-225, 6 feet tall. And he looks older than he is. I think if they looked more alike it wouldn’t be uncommon for people to mistake her for his daughter.  

AND YOUR POINT, JEN?
Chelsea moved in with us two days ago.

Jaime is a plumber with his own business. Covid put a dent in his business. On one hand, more people home trying to cook meant more clogged drains and other plumbing issues. On the other hand, people were more apt to DYI and not have someone come into their home. He takes the appropriate Covid-precautions when going into people’s homes.

In addition to individual clients, he occasionally picks up work supporting construction – hotels, offices, stuff like that. He had been trying hard to pick up as many of these jobs as possible, wherever he can find them.

He got a job opportunity that’s about a 7-hour drive (still in Texas – Texas is a big state!). Initially it was only going to be a few weeks but he got lucky and the contractor had another job in that same city that needed plumbers. He decided to stay there for the duration of both projects and there is a possibility for him to pick up a third project. For now, the plan is he will be gone for about two months.

I’ve shared how Mike plays a part in Jaime and Chelsea’s dynamic. (Post 337. Outsourcing Domestic Discipline). Mike is like their DD coach, a kinky-sensei, a mentor, as they explore a more D/s dynamic in their marriage. Mike knows the two of them much better than I do. Same with Kayla since she is friends with Chelsea. I’d even call them best friends.

Apparently it was Jaime’s idea and he asked Mike if Chelsea could stay with us. Mike agreed if Chelsea seriously self-quarantined for two weeks after Jaime left. She did, and on Wednesday (day before yesterday), she moved in.

“Moved in” is an overstatement. But “visit” doesn’t quite cut it either. Jaime isn’t expected back until October 16.

DID I AGREE?
Chelsea moved in with us two days ago. Mike didn’t ask me. He told me, but he did ask me what I thought.

It’s easy to misread “what do you think” as just lip service since he already made the decision. It’s not like that. When Mike asks me what I think, he expects a full a complete answer. I am not to hide my feelings, ever. The only condition is I express them respectfully.

It would be very easy to paint a narrative that Mike didn’t respect me enough to talk about it before he made a decision. Our relationship is not like that. I don’t expect that from him. Quite the opposite. I respect that he can make any decision with or without my input. While I like it when he asks me, I value and trust his intentions and abilities to determine what is good for our household.

My default narrative is to think of all the positives he sees in a decision he has made. Why would anyone think otherwise about their spouse? Well, we know why (I’ve been there), but that’s the pre-DD Jenny.

That doesn’t mean I don’t get to ask him questions or express my concerns. I can, and I do, but I don’t do it in a defensive way. My goal is not to “destroy” his reasoning and impose my will. My goal is to synchronize our collective reasoning and understanding. Ultimately, if that is not successful, then I fall back on my choice to submit and “let go, let Mike.”

A pre-DD thing for me to do would be to defensive, even angry, and “demand” an explanation. Instead, I knew Mike believed there was something positive to come from this. DD has taught me to listen and accept my husband’s loving intentions. I’ve learned to “think like Mike” before making my own assumptions about things.

And how does Mike think? He’s a “risk first” thinker, as opposed to a “benefits first” thinker. Me? I often think of the benefits and that’s good enough for me – full speed ahead! Mike? He assesses risk, then the benefits. I guess that’s why he’s good at business. He always says every business at it’s core is simply about assessing risk.

With my “Mike thinking cap” on, I was eager to learn what he identified as the risks, how he felt they could be mitigated, and why he felt the benefits outweigh those risks. No defensiveness. No animosity. No ill feelings. I just wanted to understand what he considered in making his decision and I knew from experience that he would be willing to share as well as be willing to address my concerns.

To be honest, my initial thought made me think of what Mike often tells me when we discuss what details I can share online. “What’s the upside?” So, Mike, what’s the upside?

And that will have to be for my next post!

NEXT: 358. CHELSEA MOVES IN

327. When the kids are away, the adults shall play

327

So much to share since my time away from blogging.  Let’s dive in and see where I take this. . .

Our son, J, is working on T1’s and E’s farm as a farmhand.  He has his own room at their place but he still looks at it as “just visiting.”  He keeps his room here at home and has been home about every other weekend for maybe 3-4 day stretches.  He is feeling so grown up as he gets paid for his work.  He also works for E’s cousin’s.  It’s such a perfect fit for him.  I am a bit concerned that it’s a lot to ask of T1 and E, but they enjoy his company and he is thriving.

WE ARE PRACTICALLY AN EMPTY NEST. 
As I first wrote about in Post 319, this has had a significant impact on TTWD.   And before I get into that, it has also had a big impact on Mike and me.   While J has spent time away from us before, he hasn’t done it for such long stretches and never where we were so 100% comfortable in knowing his needs were being fully addressed.   It’s like a tremendous responsibility has been lifted from our shoulders.  Clearly, we still feel accountable for providing him all that he needs, but we no longer feel 100% responsible for being the ones to provide it at every moment.

AS FOR TTWD!?!
Obviously, it’s made things easier.  No need to hide, no need to muffle and mute various noises.   Yes, immediate spankings have increased as there is no need to defer discipline after J is asleep or out of the house and no need to have to do things in the privacy of our bedroom.

And it’s not just discipline that can occur “in place.”  Sex can also go on in previous rare or off-limit locations.  Kitchen, couch, by the front door, in the garage, you name it.  Any place is fair game if the mood strikes.   I think collectively Kayla and I set several new records for the number of blow jobs Mike received in one day. Oh my!   And then, there was Immersion 2019!

IMMERSION 2019
For the fourth year, we set aside some time to venture beyond our normal boundaries for the sake of fun and exploration.   It was yet another learning experience that was a mix of fun and craziness that served to solidify some existing boundaries and break down others.

What is Immersion?  Check out our 2016 Immersion, or 2017, or 2018.

And like last year, Mike rented the “place in the woods” where we could get a change of scenery.  What didn’t change is the exploration and debauchery!  It’s become our custom to “name” our Immersions.  2017 was “The Forbidden Zone” and last year was “Got Milk?”  This year, it was “Take it to 11

TAKE IT TO 11
When we sat down to talk about what we wanted from Immersion we all agreed that we would love to repeat as much of last year’s activities as possible –  and add to them! –
We wanted to push and even cross the line between humble and humiliation, shame and degradation. (Post 178 talks about the differences).    All three of us had this “go for it” energy and desire to just go crazy.   Hey, whoever  said, “Too late, you already are.”  I heard that!

We also enjoyed the “guests” we had had last year.  John and Donna, Matt, Mister and Nurse Ann.  Thus we extended invitations to them, including Matt’s girlfriend, Jillian.  And we asked Kim and TJ, Valerie and Raul, and Chelsea and Jaime.   15 kinksters gathering in a secluded get-away sounds like a set up for an X-rated sitcom.  Well, that sounds about right!

To be honest, while all of them took us up on the invite, they weren’t all together at the same time.  That was partly due to their own availability and partly intentional on our part.  They are each at different stages of their own exploration and frankly, it wouldn’t work to have them all together.

To keep this short and to the point

  • We repeated practically every aspect of what we did last year, Got Milk and all!
  • The three of us added some “Take it to 11” activities, exploring BDSM and deeper M/s activities (including consensual non-consent).  Further convincing me such activities are NOT for me regarding a day-to-day dynamic but still fun on a limited-time-only basis.
  • We had different levels of playtime with our varying combination of guests.  Each providing some salacious tales to tell.

Each bullet item is a post by itself.  I think that third bullet could be multiple posts, depending on the level of detail I provide.   As for the first bullet, just re-read the posts last year to refresh your memory –  273 and 274.   As for the other two items – well, that will have to be for another post.

Next: 328: Immersion 2019: Take it to 11

316. Our Sex Club

317

I didn’t set off to be a teller of Kim’s story.  I wanted to share her background because it was interesting to me and before you know it, I overshared a bit.  Oh well, too late now. 
But finally, this will bring you up to where things are today. 

So about a month or so after Kim watched us have sex, she sat down with me all excited and energized.  She said she believes she has worked the kinks out  – oh, wait, not a good choice of words as the kinks have been worked in, not worked out.  Ahem.  She believes she has resolved her hang-ups with sex.   In her words, “I had a revelation!”

KIMS REVELATION
I already mentioned that Kim started masturbating regularly.  She soon told her husband he could watch, after all, she had been watching him masturbate for years.  That led to them having sex, and more sex.  More in a week than they had in the prior year.   And Kim said it was different than any sex they previously had.   She was not only the one initiating it for the first time ever, but actually directing it.  Telling her husband to do this, or do that.  She said it was the first time she felt like SHE was having sex.  That it was something she was doing, not something simply being done to her. 

And her revelation?   Actually, there were two. 

  1. She enjoys being in control.  And more than that, she enjoyed a dominant role in the bedroom.   And apparently, TJ was happy to oblige, or more precisely, submit! This didn’t change her mindset out of the bedroom.  Nothing changes in day-to-day life, but she became the master of their bedroom domain.
  2. She loves watching others. More precisely, she enjoys watching us, but the thought of watching anyone turns her one.  As much as I am an exhibitionist, she is a voyeur.  And she added, “And I think it is more than to just watch.  The thought of directing people and telling them what to do to each other really turns me on.

Kim said it was strange for her to say something turns her on sexually.   The idea of it is so foreign to her as well as a thrill for her.  She said she not only is able to let loose in the bedroom but can’t wait to do so.  She gets turned on just thinking about it.  Such a feeling is completely new to her – not that she is complaining!!

MORE THAN A FEELING
Kim said it goes just beyond “feeling it.”  She has this drive to act on it.  Something she never ever felt before, even remotely.

This led me to ask, “It’s great to hear that TJ is onboard and willing to accept a role in the bedroom that also suits you.  As for liking to watch others or even directing others, do you have something in mind with how you can fulfill that?  And yes, I am willing to ask Mike if we can submit our application to you.” 

Kim served up her best Jen-like response that made me smile.   

“Well, your credentials are good and you seem to be a good fit – culturally speaking of course.  You have clearly shown you can work well in a team environment and go into a project with a well-defined entry and exit plan.  Yes, you all can definitely fill a lot of holes.  From what I’ve seen, you have great manual skills.  I don’t know your writing skills, but we aren’t really in need of that.  It’s your excellent oral skills that I value.  To top it off, your interest and excitement level is infectious.  Oh!  Oops, that’s probably not a good word to use.  Your interest and excitement level is superb!  Yeah, that’s better.  If you submit your application I can talk with TJ and see what comes of it.”

“So,” I replied, “this is one job opportunity I don’t want to blow.  Oh wait.  Maybe I do?  Whatever.  You know you can count on me to bend over backwards, or forwards if you like, to get the blow. . . um, I mean, to get the job done.”

See why I Kim and I get along?  We have very similar humor.

THE GROUP TEASE
Ultimately, after Kim and TJ talked and I talked with Mike and Kayla, here’s where things are.  We are NOT having sex with Kim and TJ, but, they do have sex in front of us, and us in front of them.  There’s been some steamy play that seems to point toward an inevitable exploration into some swapping, but it hasn’t happened yet.  I think we are all enjoying getting right up to the line but not crossing it just yet.   We refer to it as a “group tease.”   Each of us sort of sexually teasing the other to see who can be enticed to cave first.   It’s a really fun game that we all enjoy. 

Kim is definitely a bit of a dom in the bedroom with TJ.  She has a new favorite toy, a strap on, that TJ is into accepting from her.  She definitely likes to be in control and have the power in the bedroom.   And it’s so great to see her comfortable and confident in demonstrating and exploring that desire.  Kim and TJ have even joined us at John and Donna’s a few times. 

Oh, and Matt has a girlfriend who is also part of our Circle of Trust.   And Raul and Valerie make an occasional guest appearance, and like Kim and TJ they don’t swap but they definitely have plenty of sexual fun.

Who needs FetLife or a swingers club?  We have our homegrown sex club!
Orgy for 11!  Your table is ready!

Next: 317.  Contrast on a theme of sexual aesthetics

315. Kim’s Sexual Awakening

315

I hope this post catches you up to the present day regarding our friendship with TJ and Kim.  Sorry for taking so long to provide the background story.  It was more detail than I intended to share and way more than I provided on Jamie and Chelsea.  While both couples have unique stories worthy of multiple posts, I feel more connected to Kim.   Jaime and Chelsea are more a Mike and Kayla thing.  Kim has become a close friend of mine and an interesting one at that.  Thus I want to give you a fuller picture of her. 

ONE MORE PIECE OF BACKGROUND
One more factoid to share that I omitted from the prior post.  Just a minor little thing that’s easy to forget. Ha!

TJ & Kim once lived in Georgia.  Kim encouraged TJ to have an affair.  Can you call it that when you have your wife’s consent and encouragement?   

It was another example of how accepting Kim has been of her hang-ups as well as how much she cares for TJ.   She was confident enough in their marriage to tell him he was free to find sexual fulfillment elsewhere.  It also showed me she is not emotionally fragile and is so self-aware of her issues that she does not want her problems to cause her husband’s needs to be unfulfilled, even when it comes to his sexual needs.

She said at the time it seemed logical.  She rationalized, “If I need help cleaning, I get a maid.  If I need help sexually satisfying my husband, I get him a mistress.  Either way, it  takes a weight off my shoulders — or, in this case, — off my hips.”

That’s one of the many reasons I like Kim.  Her humor is much like mine and I love to see her poke fun at her own predicament.  Humor doesn’t minimize her struggle but serves to recognize and humanize it.  I like her for a lot of other reasons too.  We’ve really become good friends.  Just how good?  Wait to read, but I bet it’s not what you think!

TJ resisted but eventually got a regular girlfriend.   Despite efforts to establish clear expectations between TJ and the mistress, after about six months it became clear that Sancha wanted more.  The relationship soon bordered on stalking.   Not quite “Fatal Attraction” level.  No rabbits were harmed, but it got creepy enough that they had to do something.  They moved to Texas where Kim is from originally.  It’s been about 8 years and they said that moving was the end of any issues or contact with the other woman.  

KIM WATCHES
Okay, enough back story.   (Hey! I heard someone say, “Finally!!”  Admit it.  It was you!)

So Kim sat in a chair near our bed and watched me have sex with Mike.  We made it a point not to do anything overly pretzel-like.  Good old missionary and doggie!  Afterward, the three of us talked for a bit and at her urging, we gave her an encore presentation, this time with oral thrown in.

Kim couldn’t articulate her thoughts that she said were swirling.  She wanted some time to process and understand them herself.  We respected that and didn’t push her to share her thoughts. 

Then she asked if we would be willing to let her watch Mike and Kayla, and even watch all three of us together.  We joked that maybe we should be charging her for our sex shows. 

“Add it to my therapy bill,” she quipped, once again fighting through her anxiety and embarrassment with some humor.

I added, “So I guess you’re not interested in any girl-on-girl action with just me and Kayla?”

And with an overly serious look and tone that feigned surprise, “What?  You’re saying that during your threesomes you and Kayla never touch each other?”

I said to myself, “Oh, so you want to play, huh?  En guarde.”   I love this type of game.

Confident I would throw her off guard knowing she can only take so much direct sex talk about herself, I replied, “If by touch you mean touching my tongue deep inside her pussy and ass like TJ is going to soon be doing to you, then yes, we touch.”

She didn’t even flinch and just laughing said, “Then I expect you to eat some pussy and ass else you’ll be eating your words.”

Point to Kim.  Well played!

And thus we soon had repeat private performances for Kim.  First Mike and Kayla, and then the three of us.  As for some of what she witnessed, let’s just say, I didn’t have to eat my words.

HER NEXT STEP
After cogitating on things for a few days, she reported to me that she was giving masturbation a try and already done it a few times.  She said it was going great and while she doesn’t really orgasm, she feels herself getting close.  My only comment to her was that I think masturbation is pretty simple.  Explore every which way you can imagine that might make yourself feel good.  When you find something feels good, do more of it.  That’s it.   And from the sounds of it, she was getting close to finding it.

HER STEP 2 – TTWD
She had often seen TJ masturbate as that was often his release and he didn’t hide it.  But now, SHE was having TJ watch her go at it.  It quickly led them to have sex.  Not that they have been sexless, but up to this point sex was like a 6-8 times a year thing and she never initiated it.

This “masturbation then sex” soon became “their thing.”  TTWD has to start somewhere!  They would both start fully clothed, she would masturbate and end up naked, and then, well, the sparks would fly.  She said she liked this because even though she was exposed and vulnerable when performing for him, she actually felt more in control and more powerful.   She felt it as something SHE was doing, not something someone was doing to her.  And once her juices were flowing, she was revved up to actually desire sex.

She said about the third time they had sex, she had her first orgasm.   She said it felt different from the start.   All day long she was looking forward to their little sex session.  The anticipation had built up and from her first touch she noticed she was wetter than ever.  It wasn’t long before she saw the fireworks.

In her words, “Wow.  I thought I sorta’ knew and kinda’ had a few orgasms before.  But there is no “sort of” or “kind of” to the real, full-blown, amazing, thing.  The warmth, up my clitoris, up my belly, up my chest, up to my head.  A whole-body convulsing experience.   Who knew?”

My response was, “Welcome to the club!”

MARITAL AIDS
It didn’t stop there.  She soon ordered a few vibrators and dildos for herself.  She even got a vibrator for her daughter.  I wrote before that Kim has tried hard to instill age-appropriate sex-positive attitudes with her daughters.  There are many other examples I could share, but this one was a doozy.  In some ways, Kim goes to the opposite extreme.  While her parents filled her with a sense of shame, guilt, and taboo over anything sexual or about her body, her kids are like, “Oh, mom, not again.  Do you really have to tell us that!”

Okay, okay.  There I go again off on a tangent.

REVELATION
So, Kim is jilling away, having regular sex with TJ.   “A year’s worth per week” as she put it.   It was all good but was soon becoming a stale routine.   That isn’t necessarily a bad thing IF you have the confidence and imagination to spice things up.   At it was clear Kim now had both.  She told me of her revelation that put her straight down the path of where she is today.   And what was that revelation?

Sorry, not quite to the “current day” with the Kim saga as I had hoped.  We are really close though.   Maybe next post.

Next: 316.  Our Sex Club

314. Can I watch you have sex? (TJ & KIM Part 4)

314

SUCCULENTLY NON-SUCCINCT
I thought I was getting better at being more succinct in my post.  But this one rambles a bit. 

Oh well, if you’ve read most of my posts, that’s just how it goes.  Mike calls it, “Chasing butterflies.”   I am about to make a point and then, “Oh look, a butterfly.”

For instance, I feel compelled to share this –  At first, I had a typo in the word “succinct” in that first sentence of the post.   Spell check suggested “succulent.”   That made me smile and recognize that I also think I’ve been getting better at being succulent in my posts.  Maybe the key is to focus on the succulence and not worry about the succinctness?   {insert Seinfeld reference:  Kind of like whether I should focus on my import business or my export business.}   I digress.

I left off the post before last with having to ask Mike if we can fulfill Kims’ request to watch us have sex.  I felt prepared when went to him with this request. 

WHY MIGHT THIS HELP?
I had asked Kim what is the outcome she envisions?  This is always a great question to ask someone who asks you for their help.  Maybe I am the wrong person to deliver what she is looking for or maybe she has unrealistic expectations.  Whatever the case, it’s a great question to ask anyone who is asking you for help.  

She told me she felt she needed to see sex from a different perspective.  One that she felt would be authentic, passionate, and loving.  Things she couldn’t find in porn.  “Even the amateur stuff lacks authenticity to me.”   

“Oh, a budding porn critic, I see,” I said jokingly, “So just how much porn did you watch to come to that conclusion?” 

“That’s what I am talking about,” she said.  “You are easy to talk to about this stuff.  It it doesn’t even phase you to talk about porn.”

Humm. Maybe she is on to something.  Sort of a “porn acceptance litmus test” for measuring one’s ability to be vulnerable with someone.   That could make for an interesting Ph.D. dissertation.  And again, I digress. 

She believes that through watching me she can get a sense of what’s it like to be comfortable and at ease at both giving and receiving sexual pleasure.  Right now she understands people say this exists, but she just can’t imagine that it really does and perhaps seeing it would help.   “Besides,” she said slyly, “not only might it light my fire,  but based on what you’ve told me, you love putting on a show, right?”   

Hey, she is being both vulnerable and humorous.  That’s a good mix!

I asked her more about TJ’s reaction and she assured me he was supportive.  He did question her about her motives and what she had in mind.  She assured him it was view only mode.   “I want to strictly just be a fly on the wall.” 

MIKE CALLS FOR EXMOT
Mike has always been very cautious about our “Circle of Trust.”  Although he continues to get more and more adventurous.  The way he puts it, “I am still cautious, but I am willing to consider more candidates for my vetting.”

His vetting consists of getting to know them a bit more and feeling better about their “EXMOT” as he calls it.  Expectations and Motivations.  And he requires sharing of lab tests regarding STD’s.   In this case, since she is in observe mode, it’s just about the EXMOT.

Oh, I guess this is a good spot to add – we’ve attended several kink/swinger parties throughout the year.  Great fodder for some blog posts, if I get to blogging consistently.   We’ve met some new friends that we have played with a few times.  Not enough to call them permanent members of our COT, but they definitely have guest member status!   Yep, our swinging has been in, well, how do a phrase it?   Got it!  Full swing!

Okay, okay.  So what did Mike say?  Well, that will have to be for my next post.   Gotta go!

Just kidding. 

Like TJ, Mike wanted the four of us to meet.   So one weekend afternoon, Kayla took J out and about and TJ and Kim came over to our house.   We wore clothes.  While I told Kim we were nudists and typically were naked at home, we understand that can be a bit distracting or uncomfortable for others, especially as a first impression.   This would be there first time meeting Mike, although I shared with him all of the details about them. 

THE MEETING
Kim was so nervous and embarrassed.  After some normal meet-and-greet pleasantries, it was time to talk about, you know.   Kim showed her sense of humor by breaking the ice with, “Time to just get it all out there.  Here we are, to talk about my sex phobias.  What do you want to know?”

I won’t go into the play-by-play, but I was impressed with Mike.  He pointed out that while our experiences are not the same, there were some grains that were relatable.  He told her a story about knowing me throughout high school and knowing all the guys I ever dated.  I think I mentioned in one of my early posts – Mike has met every single guy I ever dated.  And I don’t mean since we got married. Of course, he’s met those men (okay, technically just one, Matt).  I mean before we got married.

Mike also pointed out that, like TJ, he was also previously married, although admittedly his first wife wasn’t bisexual.  The point was, we all get what it’s like to wonder how we stack up sexually with our partner’s prior experiences.

In her case, because she knew TJ’s ex-wife as a friend,  and TJ’s ex-wife was very “sharing” with information, Kim was privy to a certain amount of details.  And because Kim basically hounded TJ for even more details, she was aware of a lot, including the threesomes they had.  It was probably TMI for anyone to know, let alone someone like Kim who is dealing with a lot of hang-ups about sex.      

By the way – – – Long ago Mike and I shared who all our previous sexual partners were.  But we knew each other in high school as friends, then dated, then as friends again, before dating again.  We just sort of knew without talking about it, which made talking about no big deal.  It wasn’t until after we adopted DD that one day the topic came up and we shared all sorts of details.  Details about our first this and first that.  About funny experiences, not so funny experiences, and plain old fun experiences.  It’s so much easier to share that after you’ve established a high degree of confidence in your sexual relationship.

Back to Kim.  I thought Mike did a great job of making her feel at ease, and he eventually asked her a lot of specific questions about her thoughts on a variety of sex-related topics.
At first her responses were very guarded but soon she opened up.  Mike also kept TJ in the conversation, asking him what he thought of Kim’s responses.  It was a bit like an interview, although he did tell them to feel free to ask us any personal questions, which they did.  And when they didn’t ask us questions, Mike made it a point to add in his comments about how he viewed things or about things we experienced.  At times it felt a bit clinical, especially at first.  But soon it felt like longtime friends relaxing and talking about an otherwise sensitive topic as if they were talking about the weather, sports, or vacation tips.      

BOND OR BURDEN?
Then Mike said, “I’d like you to excuse us as I want to talk privately with Jen and will be back in a bit.”   We went up to our bedroom and had them wait in our living room.  Mike asked me about my perception of things.  Did I feel she had a screw loose, might flip out at some point, or suck us into some needy, drama-filled void that, in his words, “becomes more of a burden than a bond.”   

Mike uses that “burden or bond” phrase to mean are we letting people into our lives that will burden us emotionally or bond with us emotionally.  Not necessarily a deep, meaningful, life-long type bonding.  Think of it as a bond of friendship.  He’s simply saying, “will these people make good friends for us?”

I’d love to credit Mike with being so deliberate in having the foresight and sensitivity to ensure we surround ourselves with people that are good for us.   (Kind of like the “Filter” thing I talked about in a prior post).   But, not to brag, he credits me with “teaching” him this.  Whoever gets the credit, I was proud of how he was handling it.

Bond!  Yes, bond, without a doubt,” I answered.  

He asked, “Why do you say that?” 

It’s mostly a vibe thing you can’t really quantify.   I believe it’s her willingness to be so vulnerable yet still appear strong.  To be so nervous and afraid, yet still appear strong.  To be totally mortified, yet still appear strong.   Someone who is unstable couldn’t do that, or make jokes about it, or have the fortitude to ask us such a thing without having good intentions.  

In classic Mike fashion, he responded, “It isn’t the intentions I am worried about, it’s the impact.”  

I went into a bit of rant, saying something like, “While we never know for sure how someone will react to anything, it seems a low risk to me to allow her to watch us have sex.   What’s the impact?  If it does nothing for her then she is no better or worse off.  And for us?  Hey, we got to have sex in front of somebody.  We enjoy that, right? (Jen increases the “whine” factor).   

“And her expectations aren’t that she watches us and gets zapped by our sexual chemistry and goes home to fuck like a rabbit the rest of her life.  This is just a first step, and if she needs our help with other steps, we can reassess it along the way.  It is a BOND up to the point it isn’t.  At this point, it isn’t a burden.  She is sweet, loving, a good mother, and secure with herself so many ways other than sex.  She even has the strength to know her hang-ups are her own.  She has a healthy view of sex regarding how she deals with the topic with her children.  And her husband is loving, patient, and fully onboard.  My vote is to do it.”  

Mike thought for a moment.  “Okay, sounds good to me, let’s do it.” 

I thanked him and as I hugged him he whispered, “I sensed a tone of frustration with me in your little rant, and was that a cuss word I heard?” 

Let’s just say it was about another five minutes before Mike returned to our living room, and about ten minutes after that before I returned.  
 
And so it was to be.  Kim would watch us have sex.   Kim asked that it would just be me and Mike, no Kayla.  And for the record, Mike invited TJ to watch, but he declined.  

I am not going to go into post-after-post of what transpired when she watched and what went on between then and now.  I’ll just jump to the present and tell you where things are today. 

Or make that where things are tomorrow, or maybe the next day, or whenever I post next.   Yep, I’ll save that info for another post!   hee-hee!   This cliffhanger thing is kinda fun.

Next:  Kim’s Sexual Awakening

312. Oh, you want me to do THAT! (TJ and Kim Part III)

312

A bit more background before the “reveal.”  Yes, I can be a tease. 

Kim shared that she knows TJ masturbates and watches porn.  She actually encourages this.   Yet more evidence that she is able to take a “sex-positive” stance regarding others, but is unable to do so for herself. 

 She has tried to watch porn but it reinforces her distorted views that enjoying sex and having your partner enjoy it means you must be open to all things and you must “perform gymnastics in the bedroom” (a phrase she repeatedly uses).   To be clear, I think porn can contribute to a healthy sexual relationship for a couple, and even be healthy for an individual, but if your views on sex are already entrenched in dark and painful thoughts, it is not going to improve your sexual health. 

PORN / BDSMLR
As a quick aside – our own porn viewing habits are such that we typically don’t watch it together.  No need for that as we can put on our own “show” when we are together.  There is some viewing on our own, but mostly it is done in fun.  A “porn sharing game” of sorts that we play.  We like to find things that turn us on and share them with each other.  Sometimes in a strict, “this is just fantasy” way, and other times, “can we try that?,” or, a flirty, “this made me think of you.”   

Our porn habits add to our open sexual dialogue and exploration.  Oh – one thing we started doing lately is using bdsmlr.com as a way to have some fun and explore and share our fantasies and desires.  The three of us share an account and make comments on pics, gifs, or vids that we like.   The comments are sometimes in fun, sometimes reflecting truth, sometimes reflecting fantasy.   Check us out if you are interested.  We are FunsomeThreesome.   That site is a bit “aggressive” if you ask me.  A bit more “ugly” stuff that I’d prefer not to see, but to each their own.  The way we use it is fun for us. 

Back to a regularly scheduled programming. . .

KIM MAKES A REQUEST
Kim told me she had something to ask me.  I recognized her uncomfortable and awkward demeanor as a clear sign it was something related to sex as we had previously had several direct conversations about sex.  I was encouraging her to masturbate and offered to show her in what I joked was either in a “view only” mode or a “hands-on” mode.  She declined.   I thought perhaps she changed her mind.

I admit I also thought perhaps she wants to have sex with me.  She did admit to “playing around” with another woman once.  I am open to it, with Mike’s permission of course.

Then she asked, “Can I watch you and Mike have sex?”

I wasn’t expecting that.

I replied, “I’ll ask Mike.”

She said she wanted to know what I felt.  This led to an interesting discussion about my submission.   So changing gears a bit, here’s how that discussion went.

MY SUBMISSION AND A GODFATHER REFERENCE
I told her my feelings about it are tied to Mike’s feelings.  I want to know his thoughts before making my own conclusions.   She then adeptly asked me, “Forget conclusions, just tell me what you’re thinking.”

I told her I did not feel comfortable sharing my thoughts without first discussing it with Mike.  I explained it is part of my agreement with Mike to respect and support his decisions.  I don’t want to put him in a position of being the “bad guy” by taking a stance that differs from mine.  One way I do that is simply not to take a stance before discussing it with him.

This is actually something that arose from our last contract negotiation – about which I haven’t even written!  I’ll get to a post on that soon.   The short of it is that I need to better demonstrate deference to Mike’s views and decisions.  Sharing my own thoughts and conclusions with others, before sharing it with him, is not consistent with that deference.

I told her, “Ever watch the Godfather?”

“Yeah, TJ loves that movie.”  (Don’t all guys love that movie?  I mean, it’s good, but, men seem to think it’s great.  I think seeing the power the men in the movie have connects to a desire most men can relate to.  It’s basically about a misogynistic culture where certain rules and laws don’t apply to the men.  I digress).

“There’s a scene where Vito Corleone tells Sonny, ‘Don’t ever let someone outside the family know what you’re thinking.’   Well, we’ve adopted that mindset where we both want to present a united front to others.  Big decisions – and I would call this a big decision – require a dialogue with Mike before I share my thoughts with others. 

It’s not that I don’t have a voice.  It’s that my voice is heard by Mike first.  Then based on his conclusions, we form our united front.  That’s how I like it and what I have agreed to with Mike. 

Kim still pressed.  I soon understood that she was very insecure about the question and had a lot of anxiety about not getting any indication as to my feelings.  So I did add something that probably tipped my hand just a little bit – 

“I am happy to help you in any way you want that Mike agrees to.  I am not saying that as an indication that I will obey Mike regardless of my thoughts on this.  I mean, I will obey his wishes, but my reason for saying that is because I want to help you.  In other words, my willingness to help you is because I am willing to help you, and of course, I will obey Mike’s wishes on this or any other way I can help.”

I tempered her thoughts on this being a “done deal.”   Sure, I’ve told her of a lot of our sexploits, but she shouldn’t assume that means Mike agrees to everything.   He is cautious with our “Circle of Trust.”  He doesn’t know her or TJ other than what I’ve shared.  So while I don’t want to guess as to what his decision will be, I know that it isn’t something he considers flippantly.

TJ’S THOUGHTS?
Kim already ran it by TJ.  She told me he was supportive but would want to talk about it with the four of us.  Fair enough.   I’ll ask Mike and if Mike is agreeable, we’ll all talk.

Kim admitted she was feeling tremendous anxiety over this.  The thought that the four of us need to get together to talk through this because of her own hang-ups puts all the focus on her sexual shortcomings.   It’s a lot for her to think about.  She feels very exposed.  In my lingo, she feels extremely vulnerable!   

What a great opportunity to share with her all my thoughts on vulnerability.   I only have a few, hee-hee.  Of my dozen or so posts on this topic, my favorites are Post 30.  I found my Thrill,  Post 67. An Esoteric Ramble and Post 129. Submissive ramble: Vulnerability, Respect, or Love?.  In fact, I think those are my favorite posts of all-time.  They sum up my ideology regarding what it is to really love yourself and others. 

Thus I proceeded to share with her all the wonderful things that come from allowing yourself to be vulnerable.  And she already took the hardest steps.  She had the courage to be vulnerable to TJ in telling him she wanted to ask me that question.   In addition, she was vulnerable to me in actually asking.  And TJ also showed vulnerability in being open to the idea.  There was more to his response than just, “Sure, ask her.”  But I felt it wasn’t relevant to go into detail as overall he was supportive and accepting of the idea.  

MIKES THOUGHTS
I asked Mike.  And his answer?   Next time!  hee-hee.  I am liking these cliffhangers!

NEXT: 313. Contract update – 4 years of DD

311. You want me to do what? (TJ and Kim Part II)

311

I shared some background about my new friends, TJ and Kim.   My relationship with them has evolved over the past 6-7 months.  While some of this should be in past tense, I write using a current tense as I am sharing it with you for the first time.  I think that makes it easier to follow, no?   Anyway, I babble too much. . .   

I left off stating that Kim began sharing details of her sex life with me.  More to the point, the lack of details.  Kim rarely has sex with TJ, and it’s been that way throughout their marriage.   Yes, they had sex enough to have two kids, so yes, they have sex.  But rarely.
As I learned, it was Kim that had a lot of sexual hangups.  Hangups she openly admitted. 

She grew up being told sex was dirty, naughty, and the only acceptable response to sexual desire was guilt and shame.   So, yeah, there’s that. 

I mentioned that she knew TJ and his ex-wife, Shelagh, even before they were married as they ran around the same circle of friends.   She said she always had a crush on TJ but felt she couldn’t “compete” with Shelagh.  She knew Shelagh well and knew Shelagh to be bisexual, open to threesomes, and basically open to anything sexual.  She wore her sexuality on her sleeve, which was in contrast to Kim, who locked it away buried deep inside her soul. 

Kim had limited sexual experiences before TJ.  She had sex “a few times” with a boyfriend that was fairly serious and they dated for almost six months.  She admits the break up had to do with her reluctance to have sex.   And it wasn’t about “saving herself for marriage.”  She made it clear to the then boyfriend that it was what he should expect from her always.  She even told him, “Sex is something I don’t enjoy.”   

She had a single one-night stand that she “forced herself to do” as she put it.  She just wanted to break out of her sexual shell and thought that might do it.  It didn’t.  It only made her feel worse about herself and about sex in general.   

She even “messed around,” as she called it, once with a woman, but stopped it before they went too far.  She said it was in reaction to trying to “be like Shelagh.”   

She admitted she had this admiration for Shelagh along with a simultaneous feeling of disgust, all wrapped in jealousy as Kim was attracted to TJ.   She always thought of TJ as unattainable and that he wouldn’t ever go for someone “like her.”  She saw Shelagh’s appeal to TJ as being 100% sexual and always imagined they had incredible, crazy, non-stop sex.   Kim said she felt so disconnected because she couldn’t even imagine the word “incredible” and “sex” could go together but just knew that it did for other people. 

Kim also doesn’t masturbate and had a traumatic experience as a child when she was caught touching herself.  It makes me angry to think about it.  She said she was only 8 or 9 and had no clue about what sex was or that it even existed as a thing people did.  She simply noticed one day that it felt good to rub down there.  She said in her mind it was no different than say, the feeling of a good stretch or a cool washcloth on a warm face.  It wasn’t sexual in her innocent mind.  It just felt good. 

To her parents, you’d think she had just strangled a baby.   They were mortified.  She says it took her years to even understand all the terrible things they told her as the thoughts her parents projected were so foreign and over her young head.   While she didn’t understand the meaning, she did understand they were terrible things.  She said her parents said a lot of things, but two words stuck with her.  Even though she didn’t understand what that meant at the time, she understood they were terrible things.  “Pervert.”  “Deviant.” 

Who would call a child such a thing?  And it wasn’t like they just overreacted and let it drop.  For years her parents, especially her mom, would bring up that incident as an example of her abnormal behaviors and thoughts.  

FAST FORWARD TO MARRIAGE
Shelagh and TJ got divorced and Shelagh dropped out of their social circle.  Kim and TJ always talked here and there, but the talks became more frequent and then turned into actual dates with just the two of them and not their group of friends.   Kim said that once it was clear they liked each other and were dating, she knew she would have to force herself to perform all the wild things she had conjured up in her head that TJ and Shelagh must have done. 

Kim said that once they had sex it was obvious to TJ that something was up.  He could tell she was “uncomfortable yet ambitious.”   She vividly remembers those two words because at the time she told herself, “That’s better than pervert and deviant.”   They then had a frank conversation about sex.  She remembers it as one of the most mortifying discussions she ever had.  Here’s this guy she has always had a crush on, who she thinks expects gymnastics in the bedroom.  And here she is, worse than a sexual novice, she was a sexual desert, void of any positive feelings about sex. 

He told her that the sex was not as important to him as simply being around her.  At the time she interpreted as “let’s just be friends” but, to her amazement, quickly realized that no, he still wanted to be dating her.  To be clear, he did tell her that he enjoyed the sex they had, and would enjoy more of it, but that he understood if it was something she didn’t want to do very often.   She said she didn’t have the courage to tell him, “Very often?  How about never?”   

They did have sex here and there but said it was always something “she allowed” TJ to do to her.  It wasn’t something she did to him or that the did together.   How sad. 

Clearly, TJ accepted this.  They got married and had sex enough times to have two kids within four years.   Kim said that at the time, having sex with the prospects of getting pregnant was the first time she had an inkling of enjoyment out of the sex.  She looked at as “sex with a purpose” and that purpose didn’t include feeling the pleasure that was “deviant or perverted.”

Oddly, Kim said that her feelings about sex are compartmentalized as to apply only to her.  She understands others enjoy it and wants others to enjoy it.  She said even thinking of her daughters as sexually active someday doesn’t bother her.   She said she knows Hailey masturbates and even offered to buy her a vibrator (which she said Hailey embarrassingly declined and said, “Mom!  Are you nuts? I don’t want to talk to you about that.”  Kim said she told Hailey there wasn’t any need to talk, but that it was okay and fine if she ever wanted to talk or wanted a vibrator.

To me, it’s incredible to hear that, and other examples she shared of being very sex-positive with her daughter.  I often find the “sins of the parents” are often instilled into their kids who can’t help but project the judgment of their own parents onto their kids.  And while I know it isn’t always like that, rarely is it the opposite extreme of openly rejecting that judgment.   Good for Kim, and if only she could reject that judgment on herself.

TODAY (as in a few months ago)
Kim told me that she and TJ have sex a few times a year.  She does oral on his birthday, and beyond that, it’s just penis-in-vagina sex.  She does let him finger her, but she rarely touches his penis.  She says she thinks she has climaxed a few times but isn’t sure (which to me, means she hasn’t).

She told me she really wishes she could open up sexually, but it just horrifies her.  I suggested counseling but she said that horrifies her even more.   She said she can barely talk about it with TJ, is totally weirded out by talking to me about it, and can’t imagine talking to a stranger.  She said she is only able to overcome her fear and talk to me because I seem so at ease with my sexuality.  (Yes, Kim asked me all sorts of details and I shared them as if sharing a favorite recipe).

Then, one day, she told me she had something to ask me.  I recognized her expression and awkwardness.  I’ve seen it before.  It meant that the topic had something to do with sex.   My mind raced with what it might be as I had been sensing she was wanting something sexually from me.  What she asked me was not the “something” that I was expecting.

Next: 312.  Oh, you want me to do THAT!

310. TJ AND KIM

310

I left the prior post teeing up some new friends, TJ and Kim.

CONUNDRUM
When I posted more regularly I could share stuff more in real time.  I could reflect and ponder my thoughts and feelings flowing through my mind.  I could share events as they unfolded.

But now I am a lazy-ass who neglects her blog.  By the time I get to write something, it’s well in the past.  Like that prior post regarding Chelsea and Jaime.  Her story is so interesting to me, and one I would have shared in more detail, if not for it being “old news” in my mind.  Thus, I skipped over the details of her story and got right to how it impacted me re Mike is now some sort of Discipline guru for them.

I miss writing through an experience.  Writing always causes a deeper and more meaningful reflection of how I feel about it all.  That’s always fun. . . well, for me anyway, maybe not you.

So here I am again with the same conundrum with TJ and Kim.  I can get right to where we are today, or I can share more of their background.  The interesting thing about them is, well. . . it’s THEM!  It’s their relationship, their circumstances, and their path that led them to my kinky fuckery.   Okay, yes, I hear many of you just say in your head, “That relationship stuff sounds boring, get to the kinky stuff!”   Sorry.  I think I will provide the background this time.

And just to keep some element of suspense here — know the ultimate kink in this relationship was not what I expected.   Okay, that sounds like I go into a friendship expecting some kink.  Let me rephrase – I wasn’t expecting it to lead to anything kinky at all.  But, when it was evident it was pointing in a kinky direction, it wasn’t quite the kink I expected.   With that. . .

TJ AND KIM
I met Kim at a park where I frequently walk my dogs.  She would be there with her three kids, 2 daughters, 14, and 12, and an 8-year-old son.   The kids are homeschooled and the park was where she takes them for some outside activities.  Nature trail, playground, and a great place to do a lesson if the weather cooperates.  

The oldest daughter is TJ’s from a prior marriage and the daughter has always lived with them.   The youngest has some developmental delays and issues.  Thus, we had two things to instantly bonding experiences.   One, being stepmoms that raised their step-child, and two, being moms to a special need child.    

The kids were first attracted to my dogs, which is how I got to know them and know Kim.  Over time we would often sit and talk while the kids played or did school work.  Kim would often bring along their lunch, and before long, I would make some cookies or bake something to surprise them with.   Kim and I began to text each other to more frequently to sync up our park time.   Over about six months I got to know them pretty well and yes, they got to know me and my “alternative” lifestyle. 

DON’T ASK, DON’T TELL   IF ASKED, DO TELL
As you may know, we have adopted an “if asked, do tell” approach to our lifestyle.  Not in the kink and sex stuff sort of way.  Basically, no different than if anyone has asked you if you are married.  You wouldn’t say, “Yes, and we fuck like rabbits.”  Well, okay.  Yes, some of you would you crazy kinkster.

Simply, I say something like “I am in a three adult relationship with me, my husband, and our girlfriend, and I have two grown kids out of the house and one teenager still at home.”   Any more details beyond that are based on their questions with the intent to provide honest information but the minimal amount necessary to answer their question.   Most people don’t ask many questions, at least not at first.

I don’t bring up the discipline, but it tends to come out over time if people are around me long enough.  They see it in my behavior or how I talk about Mike.  Over time, Kim not only came to fully understand my Triad, but the DD and D/s one as well.  Fortunately, it didn’t make her run away from me.  We continued growing our friendship undeterred. 

I GOT A JOB
At some point, Kim shared some of the challenges in homeschooling the eldest, Hailey.  It was pretty clear it was an issue of growing teen-angst peppered with other issues that would be tough on any 14-year-old.   Hailey’s mom and dad were only married about a year, and the dad got custody.  TJ and Kim married when Hailey was just 1 (somewhat like my situation with Mike and T1).   

The mom is remarried to a woman and had only sporadic involvement with Hailey over the years.  That contact has increased recently as her mom now lives closer to them. 

The short of it is one day at the park Hailey was struggling with a lesson.  I helped her “get it” and before you knew it, I became her tutor.  Kim even pays me.   I am not a teacher, but I did start out as pursuing an education degree.  I changed my focus to counseling and education psychology. 

Hailey responds well to me.  I think it reached a point where she didn’t want her mom (Kim) to be her teacher and just wanted her to be a mom.  Yes, Hailey refers to Kim as her mom.

The tutoring gig led me to go to their house and meet Kim’s husband, TJ.   He’s a doctor and they live in an upscale neighborhood with an amazing house.

THEY ALL KNOW
Shortly after I shared bits of my dynamic situation with Kim, to my surprise she shared that information with her kids.  In very basic terms, they knew I shared my husband with another woman, that I was bisexual, and, that I agreed to follow my husband’s rules.

While that sounds like a lot for a kid to process, it really isn’t.  Frankly, the 8-year can’t connect to what the implications of all that really are.  It simply is what it is.  “Oh, it’s like there’s two mom’s in the family,” and “So like your husband is like the boss?”    And that was that as far as he was concerned.  Just facts to know but nothing to judge and no cause for concern.   Only if everyone reacted this way!

The 14 and 12-year old processed it a bit differently.  They both asked their mom if I was gay or bisexual.  She told them something like, “bisexual I guess, you can ask her what she identifies as.”   She said they both shrugged it off but asked her, “Okay, just wondering but what do you think?”

Kim told them something to the effect, “Well, that’s not for me, but there are a lot of things that aren’t for me and a lot of things that are, and what’s important is love and happiness and if someone has that, then good for them, however, they have it.”

I admired how Kim navigated this with her kids and I think the non-judgemental response also helped Hailey in her thoughts about her biological mom.  Also, by reacting in a way that made it feel like a non-issue, it was. . . Surprise!  A non-issue.

As a quick aside – I have found more people react like Kim has than I have found react in a negative, judgemental, or abrasive manner.   Even people that I know strongly disagree with my choices, I do at least get a minimal amount of acceptance.   Ultimately, I don’t care what others think, but it is always nice to find that people can be accepting of something that is clearly not their cup of tea.   I think what has helped my experiences with this is the filters in my life.   I’ve mostly filtered out the toxic people.

MORE ON TJ AND KIM
TJ is 8 years older than Kim.  Oh, Kim is 39, TJ 47, married for 13 years. 
Tj’s ex-wife is 34, having Hailey when she was 20 and TJ was 33.   Kim actually knew TJ’s ex-wife.  They were all in the same circle of friends.  She knew TJ as well.   

As I began to be able to talk more and more privately with Kim. . . lots of texts and calls, and many lunch dates. . . I got to learn more about her personal life.  More specifically, her sex-life, or lack thereof.   And thus began the kinky adventure. 

As I wrote in my last post, I have become like this island for Misfit Kinksters.  People seem to open up to me about sex.  I think that’s part of what happens when you allow yourself to be vulnerable to someone — vulnerable by telling them the truth about who you are and what you feel.   If they don’t outright reject you because they are close-minded, scared, or just otherwise turned off — they instead will reciprocate.  Vulnerability is an amazing thing!  Maybe I should write a post about it.   Oh wait, I already wrote like 20!  Ha.   Yes, vulnerability is my favorite topic.  

So there you have it.  An intro on TJ and Kim.   As to where our relationship has evolved, well, stay tuned!  Lots to write about!  But as I stated at the start, it didn’t go where I thought it might.