261. A bit more Kayla

I left a bit of a cliffhanger with inference there is a disturbance in the DD force with Mike and I.  I will get to that in my next post – promise!  I was re-reading my prior posts and felt I left a bit out that I want to add regarding Kayla. 

HOW DOES KAYLA FIT IN TO OUR EQUITY? 
We weren’t looking for a relationship with Kayla, and it wasn’t like we were “needing” it.  But our willingness to continually put our equity into our relationship means our relationship is open to so many new and wonderful things.

To re-visit my prior analogy, our marriage is not a closed box containing the two of us, it has a door and windows, and if someone rings the doorbell, we check out who it is.  Maybe, just maybe, they get invited in.  Some temporarily, like John, Donna, and Matt.  Some..or make that one, stay indefinitely, like Kayla.

And what does it mean to have Kayla as part of my relationship with Mike….well, not just a relationship, but a marriage?

We both feel strongly connected to Kayla.  She is part of us. “Us” in my marriage is three.  I shared some of the things we have done to further “bond” her to “us.”  Here are a few more things –

SOME SIMPLE THINGS
Public displays of affection — holding hands, putting arms around each other, or even the quick little pecks on the lips.  Yeah, they happen, whether Mike and her, or me and her, or the three of us.  Pda’s can happen, but generally aren’t in our nature, so not a lot of that, but, they aren’t forbidden.  Both Mike and I try to do it a little more with Kayla, as it is a simple gesture to show her we aren’t hiding her.

It also isn’t uncommon you hear us use various terms of endearment here and there… a “luv” here, a “babe” there, or even a “sweetie” at times.  Any one of us may be directing it at any one else.  It has even been a bit funny when someone says something and throws in a “babe” and the other two are like, “which babe are you talking to?”

SOME SEXY THINGS
Of course there is also the sex.  Kayla sleeps in our bed all the time now.  Sex is an every night thing.  Sometimes it can be more Mike and Kayla or more Mike and me, or more Kayla and I…it simply is whatever it evolves to be for the night.  I do love watching the two of them.  There are times I tell Mike I am fine with just the two of them having sex and I will just watch and masturbate.

We still have our one night a week alone with Mike.  Kayla or I sleep in the guest room on alternate weeks on the nights the other one has their date night with Mike.  Mike occasionally gives Kayla and I our own night out as well and he sleeps in the guest room.  It’s nice we all get to pair up and have our own one-on-one time.  We also all three go out on occasion when we have someone to stay with J.

SOME FURNITURE THINGS
And as part of her moving her things into our room, we went shopping this week for new sheets and bedspread and we let her pick it out.  We also got a new dresser that better compliments our decor so that Kayla could move all of her stuff into our room.  Another little thing we did is that instead of  “Kayla’s dresser” and “Jen’s dresser,” we alternated the drawers such that some of our stuff is in each dresser.  No “her’s” and “mine.”

Lastly we made room for her knick-knacks and some pictures.  Overall the feel is probably still a bit more Mike’s and I age, but it clearly has a Kayla touch.

SOME D/s THINGS
I find happiness in Kayla’s happiness and in all her growth and happiness our relationship has brought her.   Further, I am so proud of Mike of finding it within himself to be able to give Kayla what she needs and desires – even when those things differ from what I need and desire.  It can’t be easy to deal with two women who have different needs – but it sure helps when, in our case, the two women share a #1 need of pleasing him.

Their D/s has continued to evolve and has a lot more M/s elements to it.  I joke that Kayla doesn’t breath without Mike’s permission.  That’s an obvious overstatement, but, there isn’t much she can do without his permission or command.  From speaking when he is around, to eating, to using the restroom – you can pretty much name it.  

EQUITY IN OUR MARRIAGE
Overall our “open” marriage means we were open to all the things that we have subsequently experienced since adopting DD. 

• Open to people – obviously the deep relationship with Kayla, and the sexual/friendship relationships with John, Donna, and Matt. 
• Open to life –  Our recent adoption of nudism is a good example of us finding something we weren’t even looking for.

EQUITY FOR KAYLA?
How does Kayla feel about her relationship with Mike and I?  I shared that she is happy and fulfilled, but what specifically does she find fulfilling.  I asked her.

In Mike – she admits there is a bit of a fulfilling father-figure to him.  His intense interest in who she is and how she feels, and his eagerness, not just willingness, to focus on her needs.  She felt these things even when she was a little girl, and those feelings ended up serving as the foundation for her puppy love to become amorous and more.

She loves serving him, and craves his approval.  At first it devastated her when he disapproved of something (punished her).  That’s why she use to be a big crier.  But she quickly learned that the thrill of doing better, serving him better, and being the person she desires to be, all make the punishments worth it.  She learned they didn’t mark a failure as much as mark an opportunity. 

She still tends to be a bit of crier, but she says her tears are different.  They are often out of immense thankfulness and joy.  A recognition that she is worthy of his guidance, expectations, and love.  I know that phrase probably sickens those who are unfamiliar with DD or D/s.  But I completely understand why she feels that way. 

In me – Kayla also admits I serve a a bit of a mother figure to her, more so than she says Mike serves as a father figure.  Probably because she feels a bit closer to her own father than her own mother.   Kayla says she yearned for a mother figure. Someone to show pride when she did well, give unconditional acceptance, even when she did “dumb shit” as she puts it.  Someone who cares when she suffered and who not only made efforts to help her feel better, but whose efforts actually succeeded in doing so.

Yeah, basically all the stuff a mom would do, she said she got that from me. And like with Mike, those things preceded our “adult’ relationship.  We were those things to her when she was 11, 12, 13, etc.  Again, all serving as a foundation for a love that eventually turned amorous.      

And just to clarify, Kayla said while she feels “let down” by her parents, they were not abusive in the typical meaning of the word.  Numb, not caring, not nurturing, yes – so she feels fortunate they were not abusive other than the abuse of disinterest.

WHAT NEXT?
Who knows what’s next…or even if there is a next.  But whether or not there is, or whatever it may be, I know we are receptive to exploration – so much so that if only one of us wants to explore, they are free to do so, without the others.

I believe the roles, responsibilities, and relationships that Mike and I have, with each other and with others, is highly equitable.  But, what if Mike or I wanted something that wasn’t equitable?   See that?  A nice segue into what I alluded to in the prior post regarding DD sympatico. . .  Next post, I promise!

86. Nature vs. Nurture? Finding my DD.

This post picks up where I left off on my prior post and I apologize in advance if I meander a bit in thought and revisit some topics from some of my initial posts.  I am just laying the emotional backdrop to an epiphany I had today that I will share on my next post.

Donna continues to stay with us until John returns on November 19.   In my last post I shared that Donna perceives the source of my submission as coming from a “bright” place in that my past lacked experiences with abuse, belittlement, neglect, etc.  I felt she was stereotyping and the comments I received seemed to agree. Submissives come from all walks of life with varied experiences!

The one common thread is simple – submissives get immense satisfaction from being submissive. The “why” will vary, but the end result is the same – it provides fulfillment in ways we haven’t found in other lifestyles. My About page highlights several of my posts about what I get from submission. My ongoing discussions with Donna have given me the opportunity to think more about why I get that fulfillment. Simply put, I have needs.

NEEDY 
I looked up the definition of “needy” and it is – destitute, indigent, deprived, disadvantaged. The definition seems to only address economic issues, not emotional issues.   Why is that? Because when it comes to emotions, we all have needs, therefore by default, we are all needy.   Satisfying our non-economic needs is a combination of cultural influences and our individual biology. The age-old combination of nurture and nature that influences everything about us.

NURTURE?
My embrace of DD certainly wasn’t from the “nurture” side of things because nothing in my upbringing supported a path to submissiveness. I know that there are some who had their submissiveness nurtured from an early age. This could be due to religion or other influences where submission was modeled by others around you and expected from you. That’s not me. While my dad was a misogynist, my mother instilled in me that I was free to live life as I see fit and didn’t need anyone (like a man), or anything (like a drug) to complete me. My family is full of strong females who modeled very non-submissive attitudes and behaviors for me.

My dad was present, but not active, in my life and that of my siblings. He went to our various school events, but never was as invested in what we were doing as my mom was.   In other words, he never asked us questions about what we were doing, what we liked, disliked, etc. It was more, “What time do you need me to be there?”

My parent’s relationship is/was odd. They were loving towards me and my siblings, but I simply describe their relationship with each other as amicable. I know my dad cheated on my mom and there was a time they even separated. While they reconciled, they kept separate bedrooms and to this day still maintain separate bedrooms. They act and behave more like best friends and roommates than husband and wife. Some of this may be because my mom didn’t conform to the submissiveness my dad desired from her. Oh, and for what it’s worth, I always related to my mom and her sense of self and self-empowerment and not my dad’s desire for a “barefoot and pregnant” (and quiet) housewife.

NATURE?
My body rewards me when I think of submission, let alone actually submit.   Whatever “pleasure” endorphins or neurochemicals the brain naturally produces all go into overdrive when I submit (or even just think about it). Simply put, these pleasure chemicals feel good!   My mom said I didn’t need any drugs in my life, and while I know she meant the illicit type, oh how wrong she was. Endorphins and the various natural neurochemicals our body produces are heaven!

Interesting, but I’ve read stuff that indicates some people get a release of these pleasure chemicals when they think of their religion. Brain scans of people who identify as highly religious show a lot of activity in their “pleasure centers” when they are asked to think about their religion. Religion is a form of submission. Interesting that the brain “rewards” some of us for submission.

Of course, the debate is, was there something in our nurturing that “trained” our brain as to what it deemed pleasurable, or were we hard-wired at birth?    Studies agree it isn’t one or the other, but a mix of both, and likely more nature versus nurture (at least from what I have read).

FINDING DD (Revisited)
I cover this in more detail in my Back Story and will summarize it here. I didn’t get into Domestic Discipline until I was 45 and married for 23 years.   I “had it together” during those 23 years.   Things pretty much had to be my way and Mike pretty much conceded.

I found myself seeking greater and greater control of everything. Part of this was to compensate for my son’s special needs. By controlling his environment to give him every possible opportunity to thrive in every moment of every day, I could at least yield some influence over a condition I couldn’t cure.   Mentally I dismissed every act of my control as an act of love for my son, no matter if it really related to his care or not.   In my mind, the more problems I could solve (control), and the more deeds I could do, the better my son would be. It didn’t matter if it was solving his problems, or my sister’s, or my nieces or nephews, friends and neighbors, Mike’s, my other kids, or Kayla’s. Their problems became my problems and I was going to help solve them.   Suffice to say, I burnt myself out.

OPEN TO ANY SOLUTION
My overload led me to seek a change in my life which to me, meant reading and researching to figure it out. I stumbled across Domestic Discipline. My first thought about DD was “that’s dumb, move on.”   However, I have this odd habit that the more negative my initial reaction is to something, the more I want to read about it.  I have found that I have learned so much by opening myself up to things that are contrary to my gut reaction.

I encourage everyone to fight through any initial gut reaction they have to a topic and instead say, “Okay, I’ll hear you out.” The trick then is to actually hear the message and not just go through the motions. It is hard, as you have to be humble and assume the best intentions from the contrary point of view. Easier said than done. If you don’t believe me, what’s your gut reaction when you hear something contrary to your beliefs about race, religion, or politics? How open are you to really listening to someone whose thoughts are different from yours?  It’s not easy and admittedly, I don’t always do it well.

I digress, but this “lesson” is worth sharing — Keeping your mind open and really hearing the other side is amazing in finding personal growth. There are times when I do this that I find reinforcement and support for my gut reaction – but there are more times where I at least shift my beliefs to something more moderate, as I find greater understanding regarding the motivations and desires of the “other side.”   And then there are the rare occasions where I completely change my point of view. DD was one such time.

I knew I was on to something after only about thirty minutes or so of reading about DD.  It just resonated with me and my mind was already “rewarding” me with those pleasure chemicals. I remember getting excited and my heart beating faster as I began to formulate how I could incorporate DD into my life. The rest of that journey is laid out in my other posts, basically from posts 1-12.

BRIGHT PATH?
All of what I stated above was a long way of simply saying that while Donna may feel my path to DD was “bright” compared to hers, mine still came about due to a void, a yearning, a missing piece from my life that only submission could fill for me. It also came from a point of just being exhausted trying to do it all.  I loved the thought of giving up my self-imposed responsibility to lead everything in exchange for a self-imposed responsibility to simply follow Mike.

I see the irony in that my DD is akin to what my mother rebelled against – but the BIG difference is that I chose this. It comes down to giving consent versus being controlled.   I think if I had married a domineering man, I too would have rebelled. He was not going to demand submission from me. If I were to give it, it would be because it was my gift. It was not because someone expected it from me.  In fact, I married a man who was willing to defer to me, and perhaps because he deferred too much (or I demanded too much), I reached a point where I was willing to give up all control and fully submit to him.

Not sure where I intended to go with this post, but I needed to get these feelings out. The discussions with Donna these last few weeks has been like a submissive-group therapy session that got me to reevaluate my reasons for choosing this and reinforcing my commitments.  Not that I had doubts, but it’s always a good thing to periodically review your motivations for getting into something and ensure the benefits are aligned with those motivations and that they still hold true for what you and your loved ones need today.

All this talk with Donna even helped lead to a moment of clarity that I didn’t see coming.  Let me just say that emotions often come with an entourage of associates, allowing their presence to go unnoticed as they influence you while hiding amongst the others.

More on that on the next post.

NEXT POST: 87.  AND THERE IT WAS

85. Bright or Dark? Source of Submission.

If you read my last few posts (82 or 84), you know that Donna is staying with us while John is out of the country on business.  The first part of last week was hard on Donna as John required her to be subject to all my rules, and only my rules.  Having to forsake her normal routine and acts of submission was emotionally difficult.   She enjoyed the later part of the week and the weekend as John required her to only follow her normal rules, with Mike filling in for John.

Direction, Discipline, and Service.
I’ve always known John and Donna follow a different D/s relationship compared to Mike and me.  Donna really enjoys, craves, and is fulfilled by direction, discipline, and service. As for me, I like the Service the most, Discipline is good – a nice mix of pain and pleasure – but I don’t really delve into the Direction part.  I don’t seek Mike’s input on a lot of daily decisions. Part of it is that so much of my day is being a mother, and the decisions need to be made quickly.  I will give this more thought.  Perhaps there are more things I could be doing to be more submissive around “Direction.”  I kind of look at is as a nuisance to Mike if I have to seek too much direction from him.  I do defer a lot to him as it is, but I am sure I could do more.  Humm…something for me to think about and talk about with Mike.

Anyway, John set out the rules for this week and it surprised me.  He once again ordered Donna to follow my rules, from this morning (Monday) through when she wakes up on Friday.   I thought this might be devastating to Donna but she took it well.  She told me that it is much easier this week and I was surprised by her reasoning.  She said she is upbeat about it because she knows it will be difficult for her and more importantly, John knows it too, but John wants her to do it anyway.  It’s like, she feels more submissive, and thus more comfortable doing it, precisely because it is difficult for her and John knows it and is requiring it anyway.  Bottom line, she feels more like “his” submissive this week, even though she is following my rules.  Interesting!

Submission – The Dark Side or the Bright?
Spending all this time with Donna means we’ve been able to talk a lot. We’ve talked a lot about our personal motivations and satisfaction regarding submission.  I’ve always admitted that my submission is a bit “light” compared to Donna’s, but she made an interesting observation about my submission.   She said that she feels my submission comes from a “bright” place, and that hers is more from a “darker” place.  And, while she has not known many people who are submissive, her belief is that most cravings for submissiveness comes from a “darker” place and that I was not the norm.

What she meant by dark is that in her mind the submissive has some history that includes perhaps at least some neglect or belittlement, or at worst some physical or sexual abuse.   If not any of those, then at least a depression or high anxiety of other origin.

I’ve only known one submissive –Donna. She has met a few other than me, but didn’t know them well, so our sample size is basically limited to our personal experiences.  I disagreed with her and told her that I think it is her own personal confirmation bias talking.  We all relate best to our own experiences, and tend to assume that people who are like us must have also had similar experiences and have similar motivations.   I told her I’ve never read anything about this so can only assume that like most things in life, people involved in various TTWD run the gamut of life experiences.  That includes whether or not TTWD include D/s or any other kink.  My guess is there is no set profile of “dark” or “bright” (as she called it).

I do admit that her past has some physical, emotional, and sexual trials and tribulations that I’ve been fortunate enough not to experience.  I also admit that those experiences play a role in the colloquial “things we do” as well as in the kink culture TTWD.  I do not believe a specific set of life experiences predisposes someone to seek out a D/s relationship.  As this is just a gut feeling, I am open to the fact I could be wrong.

I also sensed condescension in her tone.  As if she was a “real” submissive and I was just playing like one.  That’s a bit of an over dramatization, but, I still felt that she was inferring this.  Funny thing, but I know in my discussions with Kayla that I’ve done far worse than just infer this.  When I was still feeling resentful about the Kayla situation I told Kayla that this was a serious life choice for me and I couldn’t accept her just doing it as a lark.  Funny how the tables have turned and Donna was basically saying something similar to me.

I avoided feeling offended by Donna as I was able to relate to what she was feeling.  I even told her how I related this to my situation with Kayla.    I agreed her submission is “deeper” than mine, but mine was made to fit me and Mike, not her and John.  It also made me realize even more that it is extremely important that Kayla is allowed to create something that fits Kayla, assuming submission is even a route she decides to go.  And so what if she is just “trying it on for size?”  There isn’t anything that says she has to be committed for life.  Heck, even I eased into the current level of submission I have with Mike.  We don’t owe the submissive lifestyle a certain “level” of submission.  My conversation with Donna just reinforced with me that we should encourage each other to find and maintain a lifestyle that brings us the most joy and fulfillment, whatever that lifestyle may be. 

I wonder if there have been any studies out there about submissives?  Specifically in the Domestic Discipline sense and specifically with the woman as submissive – although it would be interesting to see if the findings are similar with male submissives.  And I don’t mean Christian Domestic Discipline.  I mean regarding women who clearly had options and alternatives and sought out a D/s or a Domestic Discipline relationship of their own volition, absent any family or community/religious expectations.

My bet is we would find that we come from all walks of life, all ages, and a wide range life experiences.  Some great, some good, some not-so-good, and yes, some very bad too.  Oh, what do I know?  I’ve apparently got the “bright” form of submission which according to Donna predisposes me to see everything with rose-colored glasses.  Maybe so.  Maybe not?

86.  Nature vs. Nurture.  Finding my DD.