253. What to title this one?

Uh, I cover a couple of different things in this post and struggled with a title.  What do you think of my solution?

I wrote in my last post about Matt inviting me to go to the coast with him.   When the idea first came up and Mike said he wanted me to go, I was very quick with a “Yes, Sir.”  It was more out of habit than out of a desire to go.  When I gave it some thought, I realized I would rather be at T1’s for the weekend than with Matt.  (Per my last post, we spent almost every weekend in May helping out at T1’s new house).  I like Matt, but I enjoy my family more, and have really enjoyed the time with T1, E, and her cousin’s family.

MIKE WANTS ME TO GO
I was going to ask Matt to reschedule our trip, but, before I could do that Mike said something that made me reconsider.  Mike mentioned how he thought it would be good for me to have that extended time with Matt and that it would be good for Kayla to have some time around family without me there.

“Without me there!” I imagine that sounds harsh.  It isn’t in the context from which I knew he was speaking.  Although we are no longer hiding our relationship with Kayla, it is easy for her to be made to feel like a “third wheel” or somehow in a “second class” relationship to what Mike and I have.

Don’t get me wrong – Mike and I have been married 26 years and what Kayla has with him and with me is nothing compared to our marriage.  No matter what any of us do, nothing will change the fact that the relationship Mike and I have trumps any relationship any of us have with anyone else.  (ug, you know, I don’t think I can ever use the word “trump” again.  It no longer connotes “rank above” and simply connotes “rank” – as in the slang meaning of something horrible, disgusting, and sick).  I digress.

My point is the unbreakable and enduring relationship Mike and I have doesn’t need to be rubbed in Kayla’s face.  And she deserves the opportunity to explore facets of her relationship with Mike in ways that don’t always involve me.  Mike and I have often talked about this and is why we have designated date nights with him and that Kayla sometimes goes with him on business trips.  And at least once a month Kayla and I go out on an official “date.”  We both love Kayla and want her to feel wanted, appreciated, and loved.

It is in THAT context that I fully understood what Mike was saying.  Thus, I decided that my desires to be at T1’s were less important than my desire to give that experience to Kayla.  Kayla deserves the opportunity to experience Mike’s attention and affection around family without me there and when else might that opportunity come?

It made me feel good knowing that I was not only going with Matt because it was what Mike wished (and doing as he wishes always tickles my special spot), but I was also doing it for Kayla, who I love and care about.  On top of all of that, I enjoy my time with Matt and a weekend at the coast with no kids or worries?  Well, duh!   Sign me up!

MY WEEKEND WITH MATT
It was fun.  My mind drifted at times back to Mike and the family, but I took advantage of my time away.  I got a massage, got some sun, and of course, Matt and I had lots of sex.

The more time I spend with Matt the more I have realized something.  I wish he was more different from Mike.  In some ways he has the same easy-going personality.  They share a similar demeanor.  I mean, if I am going to explore outside my marriage, I kind of wish I was exploring vastly different terrain.  Not to say they are totally alike – but still. 

I enjoy my time with Matt but I wouldn’t say I love him.  Fond of him, yes.  But love?  No.  And we have talked about this.  We joke that in some ways were are glorified fuck-buddies (Mike allowed me to include that since that is indeed factual – we do joke about that).  It is more than just sex, but perhaps not by much!  Ha.   Anyway, as long as Matt and I are on the same page about it, and Mike as well, then it is all good.  

DAD, IS KAYLA YOUR GIRLFRIEND?
So how did that weekend without me go at T1’s?   It went great.   Mike was outwardly affection with Kayla…holding hands, quick little pecks on the lips, and of course the sleeping arrangement included them sleeping together.  It prompted J to ask, “Dad, is Kayla your girlfriend?”

While we haven’t been hiding things from J, we never blatantly told him anything like we did with T1, T2, and others.  We felt simply letting things “be” and allowing his awareness to evolve was a better approach then sitting him down and telling him about it.  Telling him something is always like a line in the sand for him.  Had we just told him, it would be like, “before we talked, Kayla was just Kayla, but as of this moment, it has changed, and she is now our girlfriend.”  

It would have been jarring for him.  His mind would have tried to fill in any uncertainty about what “girlfriend” meant.  This lack of sureness would have been very anxiety inducing (I’ve written about his special needs).   Thus, it was simply better for him to witness and experience what it means for us to love Kayla before actually putting a label on it.  Applying a label to something he already knows and has experienced is a clarifying event, versus the anxiety inducing event of hearing the label and being left to wonder what that label really means.

So what did Mike say?  Mike told him, “Yes, she is mom and dad’s girlfriend.  We both love her very much.”  To that, J just said, “Okay, I thought so.”  And that was it.  And believe me, if J had any unresolved emotions he would make it abundantly clear.  And while he doesn’t always clearly verbalize his emotions,  what he can’t verbalize will manifest itself in a variety of neurotic ways.  And Mike said he was not only fine in his response, but remained calm and happy the entire weekend.

An interesting aside is that J didn’t question my love for Kayla – he wasn’t thrown by Kayla being my girlfriend too.  However, he probably didn’t fully connect the dots about what that means about my sexuality.  We aren’t going to connect them until he presents them for connection.  I suspect that realization will come soon enough, but again, it will be in the context of what he has witnessed and experienced regarding a warm, loving, and fun relationship and not just some label.  

Of course, some of J’s happiness may be in that J is in love for the first time — with E’s 11 year-old niece!   But that’s a whole other story and post!   And it is rated PG!  I felt compelled to state that right away.  The thought of letting the imagination run wild for some of you kinky f’s is just not acceptable when my child is concerned!   

Of course, when it comes to anything about me, or Mike and I, well, feel free to imagine away!

Next:  254. Dating: Teens/pre-teen? Nudism? Disability? ???

244. Part 2 – I got a boyfriend

I split this in two posts as there is a lot to explore on my attraction to Matt.

CAN I DATE MATT?
A great discussion ensued when I asked Mike if I could have a date night with Matt.  A very straightforward and calm discussion.  It was the only detailed discussion we have had on this topic thus far.  Not that we don’t talk about it, but thus far we haven’t had a need to go back to re validate feelings or concerns.  It’s early, so that will probably occur at some point.  But I recognize that it is atypical that we addressed our current feelings in a single discussion.  It illustrates where Mike and I are in our relationship.   

We didn’t leave anything unsaid but frankly didn’t have to say much.  We said what we were thinking and feeling so there is no need to keep rehashing it until/unless those thoughts and feelings change.  Mike knows he is not just my priority, but I am his.  He can say no, say yes, change his mind at any time, and I will accept it.

In reflection, the weirdest thing about my discussion with Mike is that is didn’t feel weird at all.  I wasn’t concerned about Mike feeling jealous and he wasn’t showing any signs of it either.  Just a normal conversation.  Weird indeed.

MIKE ALLOWS IT
Mike said I could have my date night with Matt – make that nights!   I have to text him to keep him informed of what we were doing – text him if we arrive or leave a restaurant, movie, etc.  And of course, let him know when we get to his place and are going to have sex.  I am to call him afterwards and tell him what sexual acts we did.

So is Mike a cuck?  I’ve used that term before but it was jokingly.  It really doesn’t apply to Mike.  Cuckolding is more about deriding the husband and there is no derision going on here.  The accurate term to describe Mike’s kink regarding this is to say he is into candaulism.  The accurate term to describe my kink regarding this is to say I am a into being a slut.  Ha!   I don’t mind owning that term.  

DATES WITH MATT
So Matt and I went out.  I was very clear with Matt regarding what our relationship could and couldn’t be.  I love Mike in insane and immeasurable ways and would never leave him in a million years.  But that doesn’t mean Matt and I can’t enjoy each other’s company whenever we could, including having sex.  Matt seems to understand it and we seem to be on the same page.

I had a second date night with Matt late last week, and Mike has said he would like it to be a weekly thing, with us alternating whose place we go to for sex.  Matt agreed – on our next date night in two days we will come back to my house after going out.

The dates were great.  I really enjoyed myself and Matt’s company.  I enjoyed texting Mike and I know he enjoyed receiving them.  And as he requested, I called him after Matt and I had sex and was explicit in sharing what we did.

MATTS THOUGHTS
Matt added something interesting.  He told Mike he only wants to have sex with me.  He doesn’t want to have sex with Kayla and he doesn’t want to join us at John and Donna’s.  Simply put, he will have sex with me either alone or with Mike watching/participating.  If Kayla is there, Mike can have sex with her but he won’t.  

His reasons were that he enjoys the sex with me the most and as twisted as it sounds, wants to be “exclusively” for me.  How sweet.  I know it took a lot for him to be willing to state this.  I am sure he had concern for how Mike or me might react.  It actually makes me feel better about his readiness to get into a relationship like this.  I would be concerned if he simply just shrugged and said, “okay” to everything.  He has needs to be confident to share his needs.

His statement prompted me to recheck in with Matt regarding my intentions to make sure we are on the same page.  Matt said he has no notions of “taking me away” and he wants to enjoy whatever time we get to have together.  He was uncomfortable having sex with Kayla due to her age as his daughter is actually older than Kayla.  Fair enough.   The most interesting comment was the he said he doesn’t like watching me have sex with John.  When he watched me having sex with John he said I don’t have the same “look” about me that I do when he or Mike has sex with me.

I wasn’t aware that I had that “look” when I had sex with him, but, he is right.  As I wrote previously, there is a growing element of intimacy…more emotion, when Matt and I have sex.  And of course, it is there with Mike.  But John?  It is more just physical.  Still feels good, but more mechanical, less uninhibited and emotional.  Again, how sweet of him to notice.

I can’t resist poking fun at the absurdity of my sex life.  How sweet it is for my boyfriend to notice that I am more emotionally invested when I am having sex with him or my husband when compared to John.  Isn’t that special?  Ha!

WEEKLY DATES
My dates with Matt won’t necessarily be weekly, but weekly-ish.  Between my yoga classes, volunteering on the weekend, and various other appointments, keeping up with my household duties and obligations are the priority over Matt.   There is also the date night Kayla and I each have on alternating weeks with Mike.  The weekend after next the four of us plan a double date (J stays the night at a cousin’s).  That was Mike’s idea! 

Just thinking about the double date gives me a tingle.  What’s the opposite of cuck?  Whatever it is, that’s what I feel when Mike watches me have sex with Matt.  Way more than the feeling of having sex with John in front of Mike.  Mike knows that Matt and I are attracted to each other.  This increases Mike’s pleasure in watching and increases my pleasure in being watched by him.  

And I get a tingle just thinking about a date night with Mike watching.  Holding Matt’s hand while Mike holds Kayla’s.  While it may look like we are separate in that moment, the truth is we are both getting off on watching the other enjoy themselves.   

SUBMISSIVENESS?
I remain submissive to Mike, even when Matt is around.  I am not submissive to Matt.  He is not “my Sir.”  I think that is also part of my attraction to Matt.  I get to have a relationship and temporarily leave behind some of my submissiveness. 

Don’t misinterpret that as me wanting to get away from being submissive to Mike.  I love being submissive to Mike.  It’s just a nice break.  And it comes at a time I am so entrenched in my submission that it hasn’t impacted my submissive mindset at home.  I am able to get right back into it.  I don’t know if a year ago I could have done that.

Of course, just being with Matt is a submissive act as it only happens because Mike allows it and wants it.  Although now I want it too!

Next: Synchronizing Expectations

243. I got a boyfriend!

RETRO JENNY
A quick trip back to pre-DD Jenny.  I was a vanilla housewife.  College educated, worked for several years before I was fortunate enough to be a stay at home mom, conventional sex life that did not leave me yearning.  My sexual history was pretty unremarkable.  Okay, so the skinny dipping and shaving party aside, it was pretty unremarkable.  

ALONG CAME A SPIDER
Okay, not a spider.  Then along came Domestic Discipline.  When I first embraced the idea of DD, sexual exploration was not on my radar.  It wasn’t about sex.  So how did we get here?    

DD required Mike and I to tear down everything we use to keep from each other — things as small as our pet peeves and peculiarities, to the big things – our thoughts, our dreams, and yes, our sexual desires.  We basically opened up our “secret selves” to each other and the results were amazing. 

It wasn’t just about sharing sexual desires.  We shared our likes and dislikes about everything, unfiltered, without apology, and without trying to rationalize them.  Sometimes dreams and desires aren’t rational.  That’s part of the reason we are so reluctant to share them.

Through this sharing we truly became one – not in terms of sameness, but in terms of one complete and true understanding of each other.  I see the “one you” in him and he sees the “one you” in me.  Say what? 

I WANT YOU, YOU, YOU!
I’ve read that there are three “you’s:”

1. The Private you.  (The you you think you are).
2. The Public you.  (The you as others see you).
3. The Secret You.  (The you you REALLY are).

How sad that we often don’t let anyone into #3, even the people we love and trust the most.  Maybe a peek, but full access?  Not likely.  Too much potential for judgement, perhaps even rejection.  But keeping #3 secret can be toxic.  Our unstated needs and desires can lead to passive aggressiveness or at least an unfulfilled feeling that may manifest itself in unhealthy ways.  Perhaps an anxiousness, emptiness or unexplained yearning.  We then may take on a number of bad habits to try to cope.

DD forced me to collapse my #3 and it was a bonus that Mike eventually collapsed his.   We had to calibrate our needs, desires, and dreams to each other, forcing a merger of our #1 and #2.   We became fully transparent to each other.  We fully shared our complete “you” which was now “one you.”  And we fully embrace, admire, cherish, respect, and love what the other has shared.  As I have written before, we’ve become one, but not the same.

I believe this “ultimate” level of oneness has resulted in our highly identifying,..perhaps completely identifying..with the experiences of the other.  We feel vicariously through each other, but it is deeper than just imagining.  It is feeling, sensing, and rejoicing in the experiences of the other.  I didn’t know such a thing existed, let alone would be possible. And this oneness is what has taken us places and continues to take us places.

WHERE IT TOOK US
I never expected what was to come regarding John and Donna.  I never expected to add another woman, let alone our former babysitter Kayla, to my relationship with my husband.  I never expected the level of sexual exploration that Mike and I have taken.  And now, I never expected to be attracted to another man.

I don’t state that with an ominous tone, so if your inner voice read it that way, read it again with a tone of wonderment and excitement.  Because just like the other places our DD has taken us, I look upon this new development i wonder and excitement. 

MATT
About four and half months ago Mike “suggested” that I have sex with his friend Matt.  I’ve known Matt casually for about 10 years – he used to work with Mike.  I would see him at company functions and he and his then wife attended a party we threw at our house.

He divorced about two years ago, is 51, kids are grown and on their own.  Since getting “re-acquainted,” I obviously have been able to get to know him better.  At first I didn’t think anything noteworthy about him.  He is quiet, reserved.  Frankly, can be boring.

He has a quick, dry wit and is caring and compassionate.  In a lot of ways he reminds me of how Mike used to be when we first got married.  There is this “aw shucks” innocence, and this shyness that you pierce if you simply talk to him first.

While some of this is just the way he is – he was never known as having a boisterous personality – some of it is the situation.  I mean, he is having sex with his friend’s wife with his friend’s permission.  His awkwardness and seemingly lack of confidence was him simply trying to figure out exactly what Mike, or me, would allow him to do.   He has since loosened up a little.  

SEX WITH MATT
The first time we had sex was in his bedroom while Mike waited in the living room.  The next time I had sex with him was when he joined us for some fun at John and Donna’s.  He had sex with Kayla and I, but not Donna.  John had only met him once before and felt he needed to know him better.   

Matt’s been over to our house once where we had sex and Mike and I have been back to his apartment several more times.  Mike has also stopped by Matt’s as part of a date night with Kayla.  So Kayla and Matt have also had sex when I wasn’t around. 

There were two times when all four of us were together – Mike and Matt would swap between Kayla and I, and me and Kayla would also “entertain” them with some woman-on-woman play.  So in other words – yeah, plenty of sex. 

My favorite thing to do sexually with Matt is to be on the bed on my back, legs spread and dangling over the side.  He is standing and entering me.  Mike is behind me, often holding my arms above my head, watching and talking to me as Matt goes in and out.

At first, sex with Matt felt much like sex with John.  More mechanical, more focused on my own pleasure and whether or not Mike was enjoying watching.  Not really focused on Matt.  Not emotionally connected to him.

But the way Mike was reacting…Mike was much more intimate, holding my hands or arms while Matt entered me.  Mike talks a lot to me during it, and it is just all more intimate.  I didn’t sense it at first, but Matt is part of that intimate feeling.  Yes, the last couple of times I had sex with Matt I felt very connected to him.

GROWING ATTRACTION
I didn’t fully realize that I was attracted to him until a few weeks ago.  Mike had a short out-of-town business trip – gone for just one night.  He said he asked Matt if he would stay the night with me at our house.  Matt would either leave before J got up or after J left for school.  Matt couldn’t do it as he had a family commitment.  I remember feeling so disappointed and it was in that disappointment that I realized I had feelings for Matt.

I found myself thinking about when we might get together next.  I realized that I wanted to see him and could not wait for Mike to arrange the next rendezvous.   What is more surprising to me than feeling attracted to Matt is that I didn’t hesitate to admit to it, whether to myself or Mike. 

“Mike, I think I like Matt.  Like, really like him.  I am asking for your permission to go out with him.”  

“You mean like your own date night?” was Mike’s response.  

“Exactly.”  

More on my next post!  I’ll try to get it up this afternoon!

NEXT:  244. I got a boyfriend – Part 2

231. Some Fun, an Ending, the Future.

Kayla and Michaud broke up.  More on that in a bit.  That build-up and ultimate break up led to a lot of conversation between Mike, Kayla, and I about her relationship with us. I thought I’d provide you a peek into that discussion.  But before I do, here’s some other Kayla-related news and some details on the break up.

SOME FUN – MIKE AND KAYLA
Mike had a business trip last week and Kayla went with him.  It was in a nearby city so they drove — it was just far enough that it didn’t make sense to drive back and forth for two days.  They left Wednesday evening and while his business was wrapped up by Friday, they stayed an extra evening and drove back Saturday afternoon. 

It was nice to have the house to myself during the day.  I was hoping for more internet time but Mike gave me a few projects that took up a lot of my time.  When I did have some “me” time, I spent it relaxing — ahem, masturbating.  I do that anyway – but let’s just say it was some extended “me” time!

SELF-SPANKING MAINTENANCE
Mike was gone during our Thursday maintenance so we Skyped it.  Mike had me give myself a spanking — that’s new.  It was part comical and felt odd.  After some trail and error I found the perfect implement — it hurt way more than I thought!  Mike didn’t have any count in mind and I was able to stop once he felt my butt “looked” the right shade of pink to him. 

It’s weird but I actually felt a tinge of embarrassment.  That was extremely surprising to me because one, I don’t embarrass easily, and two, especially not when it comes to anything I do with Mike.   This feeling didn’t disappoint me – it excited me.  Feeling a little embarrassed made me feel very submissive.

Mike was very thoughtful in that he had Kayla go down to the pool during our Maintenance Session.  He knows I like our sessions to be intimate, in terms of no Kayla or other people to distract us.  A time to focus on us, our relationship, our dynamic.  I didn’t ask him to excuse Kayla, but I did thank him for doing so.

MY THOUGHTS ON MIKE AND KAYLA
I like Mike and Kayla having “couple” time of their own.  I mentioned before we alternate “date nights” with Mike each weekend.  I know it has to sound weird to a lot of you, but I enjoy sharing Mike with Kayla.  It fills me to see Mike having the capacity to love her in ways you would love a girlfriend, even a spouse.  I don’t see it subtracting from his love for me in any way.

It also fills me to see Kayla so happy with him.  I know there is quite an age difference (26 years!) but Kayla is so visibly in love with him.  I’ve written before about how Kayla has always been attracted to older people…whether it be friends or lovers.  Although granted, it has typically been 5-7 years older, not 26.   That’s why her relationship with Michaud was unique.  He is just two years older than Kayla.

Oh, and of course, as far as unique goes, there is the whole she-is-submissive-to-Mike, in-a-poly-relationship-with-us, and most recently Michaud-has-another-girlfriend.  Yeah, perhaps those things make it a little bit unique as well.  lol. 

AN ENDING – SPEAKING OF MICHAUD
They officially broke up!  I don’t take any gratification in the fact that I saw it coming.   Kayla simply realized that the more she was with him,  the more she wished she was back home with us –  or as she put it, “doing something with her family.”

I think he is a nice guy, and that “niceness” caused him to want to keep trying (he didn’t want to break up), but, per Kayla, it was wearing on him and it showed in his demeanor.  Kayla understands and doesn’t blame him, and she isn’t going to apologize for it as she feels she was 100% honest with him from the start.  He could have balked but clearly he was intrigued with her and that intrigue has worn off.  So, they parted – amicably.

THE FUTURE – KAYLA’S FUTURE
The end of her relationship with Michaud and her soon finishing up her first year of grad school has us thinking about our future.  I believe what has made our relationship work is that we spent a lot of talking about it at the beginning (wow, it’s been about 15 months).  We were all very comfortable and “calibrated” regarding our feelings and desires.  We were overdue for a “calibration” check.

The conversation basically started with, “What are we to each other?”  It is easy enough for Mike and I, as husband and wife.  Nothing has changed there. But what of Kayla to Mike and to me, and us to her?

I won’t go into detail on the many conversations – most with the three of us but some with just any combination of two of us — and the countless conversations with myself in my mind, ha!  The simplest summation is that they were filled with love.  Mike and I truly love Kayla, and she loves us.  She feels like we are her family and we feel she is a part of our family.   There just aren’t labels that exists that relate to her family status.

I took a daring step in asking this question. “If plural marriages were legal, would Mike and Kayla get married?”  We were all in agreement that the answer, at least for now, would be no.  Kayla has so much ahead of her and in many ways our age difference would preclude her from experiencing things she should experience, free from a formal  attachment to us.  Our attachment, our love… just doesn’t need such formality.

And of course, Kayla added, “And why just wonder about marrying Mike.  In this ‘what if,’ I could marry Jen too, couldn’t I?”  Certainly, in this ‘what if’ we can imagine anything.  Her point was, she loves both of us and we both love her.

KAYLA IS OUR GIRLFRIEND
And speaking of labels, Kayla is now referring to Mike as her boyfriend, and both Mike and I refer to Kayla as our girlfriend.  Mike is waiting for the day someone says, “Wait, I thought you said you were married.”   I am sure that is coming (we thought it would on this business trip as he had dinner planned with a business associate and Kayla was going to attend.  The associate had to cancel as they weren’t feeling well so Mike didn’t get the opportunity to try out the “girlfriend” intro.).

Kayla said she really loves the fact we are now open about our poly relationship.  At the time she didn’t think it really mattered to her.  She always understood and agreed with why it should be private.  But once we opened up, she was surprised by how much more valued it made her feel.  She said she never felt devalued before, but clearly, being open about it has meant something to her.   She just never expected it thus never gave it any thought, but clearly, it means a lot to her. 

FUTURE?
She said her family (us) means more to her than anything right now.  She is open to dating if the right person came along, man or woman, but can’t imagine a set of circumstances that would work for her.  She has another year before she has to seriously think about what’s next.  For her immediate future, she wants to focus on her submission and on us.  While she doesn’t regret dating Michaud, she feels it took “the edge” off her submissive mindset.  

As for a longer term future, one narrative in her mind is she finds a job in this town and continues to live with us.  We are all welcoming of this.  Another is she finds a job in another town and has to move away.   While this one comes with some sadness, we are also excited by it as well.  We feel it is important that she spread her wings and has time “adulting” on her own – this may be her last opportunity for that in her lifetime.  After that time, if it leads her back to us, great!  If it doesn’t, great as well. 

We all are in agreement that her path needs to be hers and packed with various life experiences that fulfill her not just today, but set her on a path of a lifetime of fulfillment. 

A POLY COMING OUT!!
Tomorrow T2 is home and we will be “coming out” regarding our dynamic as well as inviting him to meet E’s family.  Oh – and Kayla wants to tell her parents about us as well.  We have reservations but are supportive of her doing so.

NAKED PREVIEW
Also, I got to experience a bit of what meeting E’s family will be like.  Her cousin, cousin’s husband and three kids, visited her and we got to meet them.  Yes, they are naturists. More on that on another post.       

Next. 232. Our Final “Outing”  

215. Super Bowl Sinday, er, Sunday

I wrote before about John and Mike’s Sunday ritual of watching football together.  This occurs mostly at John’s house because adult fun is often part of the ritual. (Post 69. Are you ready for some football?!?).     

Kayla and I don’t always make it over for Sunday football.  It depends on whether J is going to be home all day or not.  Regardless, Donna is always there to keep the guys “entertained.”  However the Super Bowl is another thing altogether.  J always spends the day with my sister and his cousins as he despises football (and sports in general, but that’s another story).   My point is, we are free on Super Bowl Sunday.  Back to that in a moment.

INVITING MICHAUD?
Early last week Kayla asked Mike if Michaud could join in on Football Sunday for this past Sunday (January 21).   In other words, she was asking us to include Michaud in what we like to call our “Circle of Trust,” (those in which we engage in sexual activity).  This prompted a lot of conversation among all three of us.  Ultimately Mike said no, but agreed to be open to the idea.

We have made it a point for Kayla to keep her relationship with Michaud distinct and separate from her relationship with us.  Of course, how separate can it really be when Michaud is aware of her dynamic with us?   Still, that’s not the same as including him in our play. 

Kayla did not tell Michaud about this as she needs Mike’s permission first.  Our assumption is he will jump at the chance, but maybe not.  He is a different kind of guy and he just may not to see Kayla in her submissive state, both in general and sexually.  Assuming he is in, he has no idea what he is in for.

The sex we have at John and Donna’s is different from what we have at home in our bedroom.  Us women are very submissive, the sex is more play, and often extended play.  It can include scenes and BDSM related activities.  We are often explicitly told what to do.  Imagine how intense it would be for Michaud and in stark contrast to the Kayla he knows.

It surprised us that Kayla wants to show him this side of her.  It will alter his perceptions of her – and there is huge potential that it would be negative.  Kayla has to think about the impact this has to their day-today relationship.  It will not be possible to simply go back to being the Kayla that Michaud is used to today.  In her submissive state she looks to Mike for instruction and permission for everything. 

What would Michaud make of her being under Mike’s control?

Would he begin to think he should behave like Mike?

How does it impact Michaud if he were to ask something of her and she looks to Mike for permission?

Being unfamiliar with our protocol, what if he does something that requires Mike to tell Kayla to ignore what Michaud said or requires Mike to correct Michaud?

What if nothing negative occurs, then what?  What are Michaud’s new expectations regarding Kayla’s behavior towards him or in his future involvement with Mike and I?

What if Mike decides he doesn’t want him around in the future?  That would be crushing for Kayla and very awkward for the two of them going forward.

KAYLA PERSISTS
Despite this, Kayla still wants to do it.  She feels if it somehow leads to diminishing their relationship, then “let it diminish.”  While she loves being with him, she says she doesn’t want to be in a relationship that can’t handle this side of her.  She feels she has kept it from him long enough.

She shared that the two of them have talked about having sex with others, such as a threesome together or without the other one being there.  She said it was those conversations that got her to believe it would be good to invite him over for football.

She said she accepts all the various possible outcomes, even the bad ones.  The “good” that she sees coming from this is that it shows all of herself to Michaud.   Yes, it will hurt if he rejects her, but she knows she will get over it and it will be for the best.  If he doesn’t reject her, then all the better.

SIXTH ATTENDEE?
Another wrinkle is that Mike already invited Matt over to watch the Super Bowl.  Thus, there will be three men and three women – adding Michaud means a fourth man, plus, two of them would be new to our group.  It may be too awkward or weird for everyone.  

Seeing your girlfriend have sex with another man and woman is a lot to take in.  Is it wise to start off with three other men, one of which is her Dom, and two other women?   

HUMAN PRETZEL
It isn’t lost on us that Kayla desires to have multiple men at one time (Post 141.).  While Mike previously stated he would not be pursuing that for her (Post 146), that was almost eight months ago.  Allowing Kayla to experience this was one of Mike’s motivations for inviting Matt over.

We talk so openly about sex it is normal for us to talk about physical logistics of sex with multiple men.  We talked about how different it is to go from two to three – where all three holes can be filled – which is part of her fantasy.   And now we would have a fourth!?!  What if she finds she doesn’t like three, let alone four?  While she is very sexually confident,  what if she finds reality isn’t matching the fantasy?  What if she is uncomfortable or feels humiliated?  It can become very emotional.  Would she want Michaud to see that? 

WHY SAY YES?
It is clear Kayla wants the experience.  That desire may be blinding her to the potential risks.  Or perhaps, not.  She seems to WANT to put her relationship with Michaud to this test.

Even though she won’t (can’t) admit it, it could be she doesn’t care if it sabotages the relationship.  Things you do to put a relationship at risk are often more of a subconscious thing.  You won’t realize you want out, but deep down something drives your behavior to get you out.   Not saying that is happening here, but, it is a possibility.

There is also an element to their relationship that has Mike and I concerned.  In some ways she looks at Michaud as a plaything.  Something to pass her time and experiment with.  Nothing wrong with that IF he understands that and is looking for the same out of her.  The point is, we just don’t know because we don’t know him. 

I’ve given Mike my feedback, which seems to be consistent with his thoughts on this, and I await his decision.

UPDATE:  Before finishing this post, Mike’s decision is in.   

The answer is, “No, but….let’s get to know Michaud better.”

He won’t be there for the game.  But we are going to invite him over to our house as a guest…no sex, no D/s, nothing like that.  Just a meet and greet, followed by more interactions with him, however many it takes for us to get a good read on him.  Getting into the “circle of trust” is a process.

He won’t be a full-fledged member of our Circle of Trust, but we can at least start the process for membership – ha!   

P.S. Submissive Rule Book Check
When Mike tells me to give him my input on this issue, I give it.  If he doesn’t seek it, I don’t and I accept his decision.  When required to give my opinion, I try to be as clear and concise as possible about the level of my convictions.  I may say, “I can go either way….” (and give him my pros and cons), or I may say, “I prefer…” or, “I strongly recommend…”  While my words are used to influence him, it is acceptable because by seeking my opinion, he has given me permission to try to influence him.

While not required, it also helps him in explaining his decision.  If he decides contrary to something I felt strongly about, he takes the time to provide me more explanation than he would if it were something I could go either way with.   This helps us to stay “calibrated” in our motivations and thoughts about a variety of everyday issues. You know, everyday issues like, “should we add a sixth person to our sex party?”

NEXT: 216. In Search of Spanking

190. Web Cam Virgin

I wouldn’t blame Kayla for saying “Enough already!”  But, she loves talking about it as much as we do.  Yes, Kayla, Mike,and I talk a lot about her budding relationship with Michaud.

WHAT IF?
While it seems Michaud is good with a “let’s deal with it when it happens” mindset, Kayla wants to be prepared.  She appreciates our help talking through how she might handle the potential pitfalls.  We’ve probably gone through a hundred “What if’s…?”   Not that playing “what if” is perfect. It’s hard to really know what you feel when something is abstract and you’re thinking, “that will never happen.”  But it is still a nice bonding experience because you can talk about difficult scenarios while in a calm and loving state of mind.  Of course, when it’s “real” you have to deal with judgement that may be blurred or influenced by high emotions.  While imperfect conjecture, we found it helping talking through “what if’s?” 

We’ve only experienced Michaud through Kayla’s eyes.  We haven’t met him, but thus far he sounds like a good fit for her.  We have purposely avoided meeting him right now.  We think it is best to let Kayla and Michaud create the foundation of their relationship on their own. Mike and I are going to be a big enough presence anyway, so we are sensitive to trying to give them their own space to carve out.  We figure making him meet us or having him hang out with us would just make it harder for their relationship to solidify.

Kayla said he is laid back, easy-going, non-judgmental, with a dry and somewhat sarcastic sense of humor.  He doesn’t seem to sweat the small stuff.  She describes him as having beautiful dreamy eyes, thick eyelashes that say “come to me” when he blinks. We’ve seen pictures and he is good looking.

CAM PLAN
I asked Kayla about the logistics of cam’ing.  (Mike gave permission for her to have cam sex with Michaud, Post 188. The Cock Block…).  I get the getting naked and playing with yourself, but, how do you start?  Kayla said she never done it.  She’s done some nude pics before, and showed her breasts on face time, but never did video sex with anyone. She’s a cam-virgin!  She said she would probably just say, “So, wanna see me naked?”  She will do a strip tease for him, and once naked, ask him to undress.  From there, yeah, just show off the bod and masturbate for each other.”  Of course, I don’t know why I was over thinking it. 

LIGHTS, CAMERA, ACTION
Mike and I could hear her in her room while she cam’d with Michaud.  We were tempted to peak but we resisted.  He could hear muffled sounds of their voices when they talked, and could clearly discern the sound of her orgasm.  Eventually they said goodbye and signed off. 

Kayla came to our room and Mike and I were in bed, but awake.  We asked her how it went and she said, “Great.”  My response was, “And?”  To which she replied, “And I enjoyed it.”  Again I questioned, “And?”   She gave another coy response of “And I think he enjoyed it too?”

Then she burst out giggling like a school girl and said, “and he has a nice cock!”  “And he is uncircumcised.”  Kayla had never seen an uncircumcised penis, at least not live (or in this case, live on camera).  Neither have I!  “So how big?” I had to know.  Maybe a little bigger than Mike, but a little skinnier.  Kind of like John’s, but maybe a little smaller, so yeah, like in-between Mike and John.”

BUSHY BUSH
“And,” she added, “he was very manscaped.  Not completely shaved, but a very close trim. I told him it looked great.”  And she said Michaud commented on her bush, which, wasn’t trimmed at all.  Neither Kayla or I haven’t trimmed or shaved our pubic hair since our Immersion, about four months ago.  Mike told us to grow it out.  No particular reason other than he wanted to “change up the view.”   Kayla said she has never had this much hair down their.  She said she has been trimming or shaving since she first started growing pubes.  I think that’s pretty typical for millennials.

Anyway, she said Michaud immediately reacted with a “Wow, I wasn’t expecting that?”  He wasn’t complaining, just surprised.  Just as Kayla has never had a boyfriend with an uncircumsized penis, he had never had a girlfriend with a full bush.  And I use the term “full” a bit loosely.  Kayla’s not that hairy of a person, and it looks just “normal,” not wild and crazy full.

MIKE MADE ME DO IT
In keeping with Mike’s instructions, Kayla told Michaud that she grew it out because Mike commanded it.  I previously shared that Mike told Kayla that if there any actions of hers that she did that were due to his demands, she must admit this to Michaud and not hide it or sugar coat it by making it seem like it was her choice or preference.   I was very impressed that Kayla remembered this. 

It was clearly an awkward moment to have to say something like that.  Kayla said it did cause a temporary “buzz kill” to the mood.  They spent some time talking about it.  She was naked, they were talking about her bush, and he was still clothed, and they are talking about Mike’s requirements of her.  Awkward probably doesn’t come close.  But they got through it.

Michaud said, “Damn, is there anything about you that Mike doesn’t control?”  To which Kayla said, “Michaud, I can hear from your tone that this bothers you. Thank you for saying something as I want to explain and help you get comfortable with this because you will likely hear it a lot.  It is who I am and I know it is a difficult thing to ask of you, but for us to work I need all parts of me to be appreciated, even the parts you may not be part of.  She went on to restate things she has told him before about her need to be Mike’s submissive.  And they talked about it for about ten minutes.

This reminds me of an analogy I used to explain the conclusion I made about my sister’s questions about my dynamic.  It would be easy for me to get frustrated explaining the same thing over and over to my sisters.  Then I realized that in many ways, getting comfortable with my kink is a lot like learning a new language.  You need repetition to understand it better.  This helped me maintain my patience in answering their questions, which were (and still are) often repetitive.  Sharing this analogy with Kayla helped her be prepared for Michaud’s repeat questions.  The last thing you want is the questioner,who is already a bit frustrated, to be answered by someone who is equally annoyed.  

She gave Michaud another way to think of Mike.  She said, “Think of Mike a bit like my psychologist or some specialty doctor.”  If she was seeing a specialist that was uniquely able to help her with something that Michaud could not, that isn’t a short coming for Michaud.  His role in her life is still cherished and valued – but in ways that are different from Mike and from me and again, it reflects her “special” needs and not anything that is wrong with Michaud. 

It obviously wasn’t that much of a buzzkill as they eventually go back to “business.”  I am sure that won’t be the last time she needs to reassure him.  And maybe soon it will be during cam sex, minus the cam!   

Next:  191. Spanking, sex, and a question

 

  

188. The Cock Block (or is it Clam Jam?)

I know this Michaud-wrinkle is a bit off topic regarding my DD.  But it isn’t off topic regarding my life.  It is very interesting to me and Kayla means so much to me.  I am happy she is allowing me to share all this.  It’s full of suspense, drama, and sexual intrigue!   And I am so excited for Kayla and impressed (beyond words…which means, here comes a bunch of words) with how she has handled it thus far.  Her handling of this really shows us that she has been listening to the things we have been trying to instill in her since she moved in.  Things like openness, strength, confidence, and honesty.  She’s nailing it! 

By the way – It is going to be about two weeks before all of us can get in to see the doctor and get our results.

IT STARTED WITH A QUESTION
“Sir, please know I heard what you said and understood and accept it.  You told me that there is to be no sex with Michaud and you would only allow kissing.  I am not questioning your decision and would like to know if anything has transpired such that you are willing to reconsider?”

There are times openness must be rewarded.  Times when trust and confidence between Dom and sub can be strengthened.  When a Dom leads best by knowing it is time to listen and understand, and not a time to punish.  

Kayla was trying to be very diplomatic.  It’s tough for a sub to walk the “disobedient” line.  Mike could have taken the “hard ass” response and disciplined her for asking him a second time.  Instead, he thanked her for respectfully posing this question.  Further, he praised her for her guts to ask him this as he knew it was difficult for her to do so. “Obviously this is important to you, so sure, let’s talk through it.”

THE REAL QUESTION
Mike then asked Kayla, “So, you want to have sex with him?”

Kayla said, “Honestly, yes Sir, but, that’s not my question.  I am not asking you to reconsider.  We will wait for the test results.  It is the other stuff…I mean, could we do more than just kiss?” 

Mike was true to form in getting down to what exactly was being asked.   He replied, “So you mean you want to say, give him a hand job or have him finger you, or fondle and suck your breasts?”

“Yes, sure, Sir,” she replied, “At least have the option.” 

Mike questioned, “Don’t you think the passion would lead to penetration or oral sex?”

Kayla quickly and confidently responded, “No, Sir.  I would not allow it.  And any shortcoming in my willpower is more than made up for in my obedience to you.  I am confident I can resist simply because you have prohibited it, Sir.”

“I believe you,” said Mike, “but, are you equally confident in Michaud’s willpower?” 

“I am confident he will listen to me,” she said in a hopeful tone.  That hopeful tone grew more commanding as she added, “And the fact he is willing to have the tests tells us he doesn’t have anything to hide and,” she added with declaration, “he said he would use a condom.”  Kayla’s voice had this “Yeah, what about THAT” sass to it. 

OOPS.  KAYLA EARNS A SPANKING
Mike responded with his “you’ve-crossed-the-line” voice.  “Kayla, you just said you agreed with me and were not asking me to reconsider the ‘no-sex’ edict.  Now your statement and your tone says otherwise.  We are supposed to be having a conversation not a debate where you try and find a ‘Gotcha’ moment.   We will finish this conversation and I will address your sassy tone when we are done.  Understood?”

“Yes, Sir, I am sorry,”  replied Kayla.

MIKES EDICT
Mike immediately flipped back to his calm and reassuring tone, “Kayla, you know both of us trust your judgment.  I trust that you can limit yourself to safer sexual activity, but even you said you don’t have complete confidence in Michaud.  And him agreeing to take the test is not the same as actually having the test.  He hasn’t had it yet, has he?  And, maybe he isn’t aware of something he has.  And why would he even bring up using a condom if he wasn’t trying to undermine what you already told him about waiting?  I am curious, what prompted you to even ask me this question today?”

“Well Sir, he invited me to his apartment after we made out by my car today.  It was pretty clear to me I wouldn’t be going over to watch Netflix.  I told him I could not come over as we had to wait for the lab results.  If it wasn’t clear already that we were talking about sex, his response made it very clear.  Michaud said ‘Come on, I’ll use a condom, and we don’t even have to have sex-sex.  Can’t we at least just mess around?’  So yes Sir, this is why I am asking.”

I asked Kayla, “So what was your response to Michaud when he said that?”

“I told him I promised you and Mike that there would be no sex until we had the results and there was nothing that would make me break that promise.”

“And then what did he say,” I asked.

“He said okay, he understood.  And then he added that the anticipation would just make it all the better.”

Mike stated, “So even after you told him you can’t come over he tried to justify his request by saying he would use a condom.  In other words, he still tried to influence you to say yes?” 

“Yes, Sir,” she said with disappointment, “I guess he did.”

Mike, always the one to avoid ambiguity, said, “No guessing about it. Whether it was his intent or not, it was an attempt to manipulate.  As if he expected you to say, ‘Oh, well, a condom, then sure, let’s go!’  Tell you what Kayla.  You are 23, and fully capable of making this decision on your own.  I know what advice I would give you if we were just friends.  I also know what command I would give as your Dom.  Do you want my advice, or do you want my command?” 

She hesitated.  As she later explained it, not because she was unsure of the answer, but it took her a moment to process the question.  As soon as it clicked what she was being asked, she answered, “Dom.  Always my Dom, Sir.  Please, I will abide by your command.” 

Mike thanked her for her trust and confidence and added, “I don’t believe it serves any useful purpose to play with fire.  You can continue the public affection of kissing or even holding hands, but the answer is still no on any sexual activity.  You also are not to go to his apartment until I tell you.”

KAYLA EARNS A CONCESSION
It was clear she was disappointed, but she understood and accepted his order.  But she very squeamishly added, “Sir, I thank you for allowing this conversation and I again commit to following your orders as always.  To make sure there is no miscommunication, I do have one more question as a point of clarity, and not questioning your command. Does sexting, phone sex, or cam-sex count?”

Mike thought for moment, then for another, and then another. 

Then he said, “Sorry for the pause.  I’ll just think it out loud so you know my thought process on this one.  My inclination is to say yes, that counts so don’t do it.  But, to be honest, I think I am feeling that way only because I can, because, well, you do as I say.  But, such things don’t put us at risk, and doesn’t put you at risk of any STD.  And if I trust your judgement that your relationship with him is ready for that, then what’s my reasoning?  I do trust your judgement.  If you feel you want to do those things, I won’t prohibit them.”

A very happy Kayla responded with a hug and “Thank you, Sir.”

MIKES CONDITIONS
“However,” Mike added, “our house rules prohibit secrecy in the house.  Just like I can access and read your emails, texts and social media accounts today, your relationship with Michaud is no different.  You must show me your texts when I ask for them and any phone calls, whether sex talk or not, and any cam-sex, shall not be done in secret.  While you don’t have to go out of your way to tell us what you are doing, you won’t go out of your way to hide those activities.  Unless J is awake, your bedroom door and bathroom doors remain open.  Neither Jenny or I will make it a point to listen in or watch, but what you do in this house is never hidden and is subject to my inspection or observation at any time.”

“And,” Mike added, “you need to tell Michaud that I am requiring the “no sex until tests are in” rule and I am allowing the sexting/phone sex/cam-sex.  If your relationship with him is ever going to work he will need to understand your commitment to me.  No need to delay that understanding.  Make it clear to him that you won’t have sex with him right now as a commitment you’ve made to me.  Further, if there are any actions that you do that are because of my demands, you need to share that with him.  Don’t sugar coat it by making it seem to be your choice or your preference.  If it is something I demand, then you explain it to him that way.  If he can’t handle that, then it will be good for you two to deal with that right now instead of later.  If he can handle it, well, then that’s a great sign that your relationship has a clear runway for take off.

“Thank you, Sir,” Kayla smiled, “I can do that.  I will do that.” 

“Now,” as Mike’s tone became stern, “About that sass from earlier…”

KAYLA TALKS WITH MICHAUD
Kayla talks with Michaud every day and texts incessantly.  Even when they don’t have class together they get together for lunch or dinner and a movie. 

Kayla said she is encouraged by their conversations regarding Michaud’s ability to handle her being in a relationship with us plus her submissiveness to Mike — the latter being the bigger challenge.   Michaud is still a bit perplexed by it, but seems to be trying to understand it.   He seems very enamored and intrigued with Kayla and her lifestyle choices, but that could quickly wear off if there relationship gets more serious.  

Kayla told him that it was Mike’s demand of her regarding ‘no sex until labs are in but sexting and cam are okay.’  Kayla said this prompted more conversation with Michaud on exactly what role Mike fulfills for her.  And there was the natural and expected comment from Michaud of, “Well, would you do those things for me?”  

Kayla was clear she would not.  She told him she would not consider having multiple Doms.  She told Michaud she wants him for him; a friend, a confidant, and yes, a lover too.  All the things “normal” to a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.   The twist is such things would not be exclusive.  She told him, “Mike and Jen are those things for me too, and that won’t change.”   And she told Michaud that if it helps, think of Mike somewhat as “a heavily influential and strict parent whom I love, adore, respect, and never want to disappoint.”   (btw, Mike was okay with this description).

Further, Kayla told Michaud that it is a deal breaker if he does anything to attempt to undermine Mike’s authority over her.   She told him such undermining, such as encouraging misbehavior, would end their relationship.  She told him she doesn’t expect or need him to be a cheerleader for it, but he must be tolerant of it and never attempt to undermine. 

I copied this from one of her texts to him.   

KAYLA:  It’s not a contest.  I need Mike as my Dom and I want you as my boyfriend.  Hopefully those things are compatible.  if not, we can’t continue.  😦  If this seems too complicated, I understand.  No hard feelings.  I don’t want to scare you away, but I don’t want to lure you in under false pretenses.  You are going to have to put up with some weird relationship shit that is unlike any you put up with before.  I am telling you now that whatever those shit situations are, they will never be a reflection of any shortcoming you have as person or a boyfriend.  They are a reflection of my need to be submissive to Mike.

MICHAUD:  You are already giving me the “It’s not you, it’s me” speech?   j/k.  I get it. You just being real.  I like that.

KAYLA:  LOL.  yeh somethin like that.  In other words, I am the weird one, not you.  So if you like weird, here I am, but then don’t complain about the weirdness

MICHAUD:  Not weird, just different.  Different good.  Can I complain just a little?  

KAYLA:   I am not telling you that you can’t have feelings.  jealousy, betrayal and crap like that.  understandable.  I want you to share those feelings the moment you feel them.  lets address them.  But sharing isn’t complaining if done right.  Just ask questions from a loving place, not judgmental or frustrated place.

MICHAUD:  That shouldn’t be too hard, cuz I love you.

KAYLA:  Good, you’ll need lots of love to deal with this.  And I love you for giving me a chance and being such a great guy.

MICHAUD:  You make it easy to love you.  At least so far— ha. But I get it.  I’ll let you know if it gets hard. 

KAYLA:  I appreciate that you think you get it for now.  But you probably won’t until you live it.  Love you for that. 

MICHAUD:  Love ya too

KAYLA:  Cam? 

Next: 189. Happiness, Pleasure, Love, Intimacy, Sex: Jenny rambles