344. Kayla Interview Part III

I know I’ve spent a lot of time posting about my “Interview with Kayla.”  Don’t you know that I am slightly fond of her?   Hee-hee.   Hopefully, you find that hearing from her is interesting and entertaining.    If you didn’t read the other parts, here ya go — Part I.    Part II.

PART III
Jen:  I had someone email me asking about finances.  They were in a long term committed poly relationship and found the finances to be a point of contention.

Kayla: I think whether it’s a traditional or non-traditional relationship, money can be a source of friction.   I think it is less about the type of relationship and more about any differences in how each person views money.  You probably understand the psychology better than I do.

Jen:   Yes, there is something universal about household finances as a potential point of conflict for any relationship.   Economic power is just one more area a couple in a power-exchange dynamic has to address.  Sometimes the submissive may be willing to submit in many ways except economically.   This can cause conflict if the Dom expects such submission.  No different than if talking sex or household rules of any kind.

There’s nothing wrong with a power-exchange that does not include an exchange of economic power.  There is no right way or wrong way for a submissive or a Dom to think about this.   The key is,  no relationship can ignore this topic and like EVERY aspect of their relationship, they have to find a solution that works for everyone involved.  You can assume a submissive is likely to submit financially, but they may not for many valid reasons.  No different than say a submissive who does not want to be sexually shared or that just doesn’t do windows.  Haha.  They just have to find a Dom that accepts it.  But this post isn’t about financial advice for kinksters, it’s about you.  So explain how your finances work.

Kayla: I think you posted about this (I did).   When I was going to school I paid you rent.  My dad was still giving me money for living expenses and I had a part-time job for a bit.  I would give all my money to Mike and he would give me an allowance.  He monitored my purchases and I had to get permission for most expenditures.  I didn’t have many expenses since you all took care of groceries, utilities, and stuff like that and my dad took care of school expenses.

When I started working a “career” job after finishing school, I didn’t hesitate to give all my money to Mike.  Direct deposit into his account.   We didn’t even discuss it ahead of time.   I just did it as it was natural to me and I expected it of myself, as much as Mike expected it of me.  The fact I was making significantly more money didn’t change this for me.

Jen:  Did he expect it?  What would you say to those that think he, or we, are taking advantage of you? 

Kayla:  If they are going to point to the money as the area of concern, and not all the other submissive things I do or that I am part of a relationship with a married couple, then to me that’s a positive.  At least they accept those other parts and if they want to focus on the finances, so be it.  To me, either I am being taken advantage of in every aspect of our relationship or I am not.  I know I am not.  What others think doesn’t bother me.  You all bought me a car (Post 283. We are three) with what I thought was rent money I was giving to you.  I have no reason not to trust you all. 

Jen:  I understand it, but what would you say to those that don’t?

Kayla:  I think they say that because they can’t understand how I could be secure in this relationship, emotionally or financially.  They assume my relationship with you all is tenuous and I should maintain an exit plan, including a financial one.  That’s b.s. to me.  I bet I am saving more money than my peers.  

Jen:  You have money in your own name?

Kayla:  Yes, Mike insisted.  But he does see my statement and I can not spend it – period.  But to be clear, I would have accepted having nothing in my name.  I was even willing to have the car in his name.  I was willing to have no assets to my name.  Mike was the one who insisted on an arrangement where I have money of my own.

Mike said that I deserved a semblance of financial security that you have as his legal wife.  While legally it can never be the same, he felt it important that I had a safety net.  I can’t get equity in the home, but I could build equity some other way.  His explanation made me feel better because honestly, I wanted to 100% submit financially – give everything to him.   Now, I cherish what I do have in my name because it represents a financial equity in this household and in our marriage, legal or not.

Jen:  Explain how the arrangement works.

Kayla:  All our money goes into our household “Bills” account that Mike controls.  He takes care of the mortgage, utilities, and any recurring monthly expenses.   There’s typically a set amount that he then transfers to our “Daily” account.  All three of us are on the Daily account and use it for groceries, gas, clothing, and things like that.   (I covered the basics of this is in Post 181.  Domestic Financial Discipline).   The two of us have rules on what we can buy without permission, like groceries and gas.  This account is like our allowance.  Mike rarely makes purchases from that account since we are responsible for day-to-day household needs.   We are free to spend that account down to zero if need be as it is the amount Mike has allocated for all those daily type household expenses.

And when he puts money in the Daily, he also puts some in our individual savings accounts and the family savings account.  That can be used for gifts for birthdays and Christmas and to build up for that rainy day.   So savings is already taken out as if it were its own expense.  Mike is so good with money.  I have no clue how to spend wisely or save anything.  Well, I do now.

I already have a nice savings balance, plus Mike was adamant I contribute a large amount to my employer’s 401(k).  Believe me, financially speaking I am way better off than most of my peers.  While it sounds ominous that my paycheck goes to Mike, I not only enjoy this arrangement, I am benefiting from it.  Mike also provides me a level of financial discipline I could not provide on my own. 

Jen:  Speaking of discipline, let’s talk DD, more precisely, how your journey into submission has evolved.   What’s your narrative to describe your journey?

Kayla:  The summary of it is, I was insecure, I was self-destructive and headed down a path of even greater destruction, I was scared, I was lost.  I was like a ship that on the outside seemed seaworthy but I had no rudder.  Then you all let me in.  From the moment you shared your dynamic with me I was intrigued.  Make that hooked.  (Post 77.  Heart to Heart with Kayla).  I remember immediately thinking, “I want Mr. H to treat me that way.”  I think I became very flirty in hopes of charming you.  I guess it worked!

Jen:  Ya’ think?   Speaking of me, at first, we dabbled with having me as a disciplinarian along with Mike.  Talk about that.

Kayla:  I liked the idea of being submissive and accountable to both of you.  In some ways I still do, but not to the degree I needed it at first.  I can’t explain it, but I think part of it was that I wanted to be accepted by both of you and a part of both of you.  I didn’t want just a one-way relationship that was only me and Mike while the two of you had your own relationship.  I wanted a three-way relationship and at the time I thought being submissive to you was one way to have that.   Over time I realized I could have a relationship with you that didn’t include being your submissive, and anyway, it was interfering with your submissive mindset, so we both sort of moved on from that.

Jen:  “Sort of?”  So would you prefer that I discipline you?

Kayla:  Sometimes.  But I know when I think through the implications, while I like the idea of it, I wouldn’t like the reality of it.  I love where things are between us and wouldn’t want to change it.  But, I wouldn’t mind a spanking from you now and then, even if just play.

Jen:  Noted.  We can make that happen.  How would you describe our relationship and your thoughts about the age difference?

Kayla:  You are my wife.  That’s how I describe it.  I love you.  Age exists but doesn’t change those feelings.  I figure there is probably some element of psychology at work regarding my relationship with my mom – or lack of.   When I was 12-15ish I thought of you as a motherly figure.  No escaping that.  I love the warmth of your nurturing soul, and I love to be the object of that nurturing.   And at one time that nurturing may have had more of a mother-daughter vibe, but that vibe completely changed when I became a part of the family.

Jen:  Thank you, and yes, it did.  You are confident and vibrant.  You are “adulting” very well.   You don’t need mothering.   But, you do like to be little?  What do you think that is about? (Post 279. And baby makes three)

Kayla:  We’ve talked about this a lot and I still can’t fully explain it.  I think the really young age play — infant level play — was part of “resetting” my childhood from the beginning.   I needed to start from that beginning.  Sort of role-playing it out where I got everything I needed psychologically.   And then eventually I “aged up” in that play from infant to toddler to young child.

Jen:  And where are you today in that play?

Kayla:  I don’t know any other littles, but from what I’ve read I am probably more in line with the more traditional little-play.  I still have that need to be little now and then.   It’s fun role play, but I get deeply into it, beyond a role.  I become little in my mind.  I’d say my little persona ranges from age 4 to 7 but occasionally may dip into age 2 or 3 regarding breastfeeding or diaper play.

Jen:  I love that breastfeeding and diaper play rolls off your tongue as if you were talking about a favorite dessert or dress.

Kayla:  What?  You mean they aren’t normal things to talk about?   If your readers could only hear some of our conversations!  Besides, those are my favorite desserts and dress. (laughing). 

Jen:  What about your need for discipline.  Do you think about why you need this lifestyle?

Kayla:  Not really.  I just accept it.  It fulfills me.  It just feels right.  It’s like if you asked a vanilla hetero woman what she thinks about why she needs her vanilla hetero lifestyle.  You just are what you are and should just be what you are.  Go with it if it fulfills you and doesn’t harm others.

Jen:  You’re right.  I think I project my feelings on this.  Coming from 20+ years of being that vanilla hetero wife, I guess it’s easier for me to think about why I changed.  I lived the other side for so long and thus it may be more natural to occasionally reflect.  But you never see a friend or co-worker or woman in the store or ever have thoughts of, “I wish I could do that.  I wish I could be free?”

Kayla:  Never.  I cherish my role in our marriage and love being submissive.  I am free!  Free to explore something that means everything to me.  Free to explore my submission and do so in a healthy and nurturing environment.  I wouldn’t want any other life or lifestyle.

Jen:  Your submission is deeper than mine, in terms of what you do and what fulfills you.  In kink terms, it is more Master/slave than simply Dominant/submissive.

Kayla:  Like you, I had to find my limits, that level of submission that fulfilled me and that Mike was comfortable with giving.  He’s such a perfect Dom in helping both of us find our individual limits and not dictating them.  I do love a more slave oriented dynamic than a submissive one.   It’s hard to explain.  I need Mike to know I am his in any and every way he wants.  It isn’t enough for him to feel it is true, I want him to demonstrate it is true.   No different than you.  It’s just a matter of degree.  Mike is awesome at recognizing the different degrees to set things for you compared to me.

Jen:  I agree, but I always like to note on my blog that while Mike is the perfect Dom, he’s our perfect Dom.  He’s perfect because he fulfills what we both need and want.  Someone else with different needs and wants may find him inadequate.  I like to tell my readers that the perfect Dom is the one that is perfect for you.  Fortunately, Mike is perfect for both of us.

Kayla:  Oh he sure is, and that makes it all the more fulfilling to serve him.  He deserves it.  He deserves you, and he deserves me, every ounce and fiber of me.  While I may have freely given myself to him, he has shown me that he deserves all of me.  It’s a wonderful feeling.

Jen:  Yes, it is.   When you first joined our family, I made several posts about adjustments I had to make, emotionally, dealing with feelings related to jealously.  Have you ever been jealous of me?

Kayla:  I don’t think so.  I love Mike.  But I don’t feel I need him all to myself.  Maybe I was fortunate that early on I was too insecure to consider jealousy.   That seems counter-intuitive as jealousy is rooted in insecurity.  But I felt so deeply insecure that I felt like I didn’t even deserve the feeling of jealousy.   Does that make sense? (yes!) 

He was your husband and I so much wanted to be a part of the two of you, that I didn’t give my mind the chance to think anything negative.  I never once felt in competition with you.  I didn’t feel I was even entitled to feel like I was competing.

By the time I knew my position in the family was cemented, there simply wasn’t a need for any negative feelings.  If such feelings were bubbling around somewhere in my mind, I was in a place where they didn’t matter and I could reconcile them.

And what is there to be jealous of?  What would I be competing for?   Not legally being his wife?   When I think that through I feel terrible, not jealous.  If I were his wife, you would not be.  I would never take that from you, or from him, or the kids.  Their parents are married and in love.   I could never want something that would require others to experience so much pain and anguish.  Besides, I have everything I need from him and from you.  I don’t feel anything is lacking.  Like you, I love anything that brings joy to Mike, and there isn’t anyone that brings him more joy than you.   

 Jen:  Thank you, and know that you bring him a lot of joy as well.  He loves you, and I love you, and we both love that the other loves you.  Lots of love to go around.  As I stated before, Love is not Pie.  It is not to be divided and rationed.  It is infinite and to be shared.

You do a lot for Mike.  Things I don’t even do.  You clean his car every day, you run to put towels in the dryer when he showers so you can bring him warm towels when he is done.  The two of you have a lot of rituals as well and he communicates a lot to you in simple gestures, like your own form of sign language.  Mike is also a lot more strict with you.  You probably get 2-3 times the spankings I do.  And your discipline mixes in a lot of sex.  Do you ever look at my dynamic with Mike and wish your submission was less deep?

Kayla:  The question is, do you ever look at mine and wish yours was deeper?

Jen:  No, that’s not the question.  (I said in a mock stern voice). But I think I understand that as an answer.  In other words, your submission is where you and Mike want it to be and that’s that.  I totally get that.  And for the record, I love watching the two of you interact.  It always brings me joy to witness your submission to him.

Changing gears. You are changing your last name to match ours.  This is an amazing commitment on your part and we are overwhelmed by your decision.  It never dawned on us to even consider such a thing.  It’s so special.  I don’t have the right words to express just how special a gift that is to us.  No question for you.  I just needed to state that for my readers.   On second thought, I do have a question.  What gave you that idea and why did you ask both of us for permission and not just Mike?

Kayla:  Thank you.  And it isn’t my gift to you, but your gift to me.  I was very nervous when I asked you all.  I thought one or both of you might get upset and think I was taking things too far.  But I kept telling myself that you all have been so supportive and transparent with our relationship – the ceremony, the tattoos.   As for how it came to me, it was very sudden, like this lightning bolt.   I friend of mine is friends with a gay male couple who were married.  She was telling me that when her friends married, they created a new last name that was a mixture of their two names.  (here’s a name-mixing tool I found that can help you with ideas) 

In an instant it hit me.  I need to change my name.  And it was more than just needing it, I had to do it.  I felt bad that I hadn’t thought of it before.  Like I was lacking in trust in our relationship and every day I kept my last name was another day of not demonstrating my full trust.   I think that’s why I got nervous.  I couldn’t imagine how I’d feel if you said no.  I thought you all would be happy, but no one can be 100% sure about that.  And I was mostly worried about your reaction, Jen.  

You’ve always been so supportive and inclusive of me – as part of your family when I was a child, and as part of your marriage as an adult.  But I still worried you might think I was going too far, that changing my name was a way to put myself closer to your level.  It was a name you had taken, and that maybe you would think I was trying to minimize you taking his name.  I felt it was important that I ask both of you and not just Mike.   As much as I know Mike is the ultimate decider of all things in our family,  I wanted your immediate reaction.  I would feel guilty if I thought you were just going along with it because Mike agreed.  I didn’t want you to just go along with it.  I wanted you to honor it, to invite it, to welcome it.  And you did. 

Jen:  Yes, we both did.  Thank you for considering my feelings like that.  It is a very big decision, but one I did not hesitate to support.  The moment you asked I was like, “Oh my god, I love it. Why didn’t we think of this?  It’s perfect.”  You were there.  I got reprimanded by Mike for not letting him speak first.   Again, it’s a wonderful gift to give us and demonstrates your commitment to the three of us as a unified triad.   So where do you see yourself in five or ten years?  What about kids?

Kayla:  I see myself a part of this family.  We are three!  In my mind, it is “until death do us part.”  I know I am still young and that the road in life has a way of throwing unexpected curves or present divergent paths.  If that happens, we deal with them at that time.  But I am probably not much different than anyone who gets married.  They don’t think about it as, “Well, what will I do when this is over?”    The thoughts are, “What will WE be like in the future?”  

I think we will be a lot like we are today.  Our dynamic may evolve, but the three of us will remain three.   And kids?  Sure, I see them at some point.  There’s always artificial insemination or good old fashion natural insemination. (laughing).   So when the time comes there will be decisions we all will have to make and I do consider it a three-way decision since it impacts all of us.

Jen:  For the readers, I think I’ve written before, Mike has been snipped, as coincidentally has John, TJ, and Matt.  The only man in our COT who isn’t sterile is Jaime (condoms and/or birth control!).  And we’ve told Kayla that we are supportive of her having a child at some point.  We don’t feel now is a good time, nor does she, but we see it happening at some point.

So Kayla, speaking of semen… you did sort of mention semen…. let’s end this with questions about sex.   What do you think about your sex life?

AND WITH THAT

I think I will end this post and will most definitely wrap up this Q&A with Kayla on the next post.   I hope you all enjoy hearing from her and understanding more about her.  I am so proud of her and so happy to be a part of her life and her a part of mine.   Maybe I got too excited and am oversharing.  But I tend to be an over-sharer. It’s my brand for this blog and you wouldn’t want me to get off-brand would you?   So you’ll just have to accept it and skim through it or skip it if it is just too much blah-blah-blah for you.

Next Post: 345. Kayla Part IV – Stories of first times

343. Kayla Interview Part II – Kayla Ours, the new addition

Let’s dive right back in where I left off on the prior post.

Good thing many of you are isolated with nothing to do but read stuff like this because this is a long one.  I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy sharing more about my dear Kayla!

Jen:  Kayla, let’s fast forward 2016 when you became a part of us.   What were your thoughts about us before the events that led us to where we are today?

– – – Kayla reminded me of a post she did on this blog.  I had forgotten.  Instead of repeating things, it turns out the answer to this question is covered in that post.  Check it out here.  Post 182.  Hello, my name is Kala. —

Jen:  Things moved pretty fast with us.  According to things I blogged about, it was October 2016 when I first told you about the “new” lifestyle we adopted.   About a month later, we were making plans for you to move in, which you did right after Christmas.
You went from the babysitter to a submissive in a triad with a married couple in a months time.

Kayla:  A month? That would be ridiculous, like, I was some kind of desperate and needy whore.  It was clearly six weeks!   Yeah, kinda fast.  A lot of thinking can get done in six weeks.  It really isn’t that fast.  And hey, I thought of myself as being more than just the babysitter.

Jen:  I didn’t say “just” the babysitter.  But sorry, you are right, you were much more than that.  It makes for a better narrative for my kinky readers.  But still, that was fast, wasn’t it?

Kayla:  I get it.  I know both of you thought fondly of me and I was always welcomed as part of the family, not just the babysitter.   I believe everything was just perfect timing for where I was in life, what I was needing and hoping for, and what you all were able to provide me.  I so much wanted to be a part of the two of you, beyond just a young family friend.  I had zero reservations.  Did you?

Jen:  Hey, I am the interviewer here.  I think I blogged plenty about some of the things I went through at that time.  (There’s probably about ten different posts about this beginning from Post 79. Anxiety, Resentment, Jealousy, Guilt to about Post 101 Compersion with a side of Submission and Spanking.  Probably more after that as well).

– You can read those if you want the answer to Kayla’s question. Let’s move on. –

Jen:  Speaking of a good narrative for my kinky readers, you told us before your first orgasm was to thoughts of Mike.  Please elaborate.

Kayla:   Yes, pretty sure my first real masturbation and orgasm were to thoughts of Mike.  It wasn’t thoughts of sex with him, at least not at first.   Him just hugging me, which he did in real life, as well as thoughts of him just caressing my arm, which he did NOT do in real life.  Yes, the thoughts of a sexy man caressing my arm was enough to make young Kayla all warm and tingly inside. (laughing)

Jen:  In other words, no different than what it takes to make you that way today?  (more laughing).

Kayla:  I go way beyond warm and tingly today, but yeppers, it doesn’t take much, even today.   But those pubescent fantasies in my head eventually evolved beyond him caressing my arm.  At some point I imagined him disciplining me – as in spanking me.  Not at all in a kink way but like a real disciplining from someone who might spank their kids.  After running those thoughts through my head, well, I’d get all the tingles down there.  At first,my mind would shift to just focusing on the tingles and not thinking about Mike or about being spanked.  But that eventually changed.

Jen:  Why do you think that fantasy appealed to you?

Kayla:  I don’t know.  It’s hard to explain why something makes you feel a certain way, especially at that age when you can’t even comprehend what may be behind certain feelings.  But if I were to guess, I think I wanted his attention and for him to care enough about me to want to help me.  A fantasy of him being stern with me and spanking me was how those feelings were manifested. 

Jen:  At that time, did you ever think about what those fantasies might mean?

Kayla: Don’t forget, I was like 11 or 12 when those thoughts started creeping into my fantasies.   And a twelve-year-old isn’t going to self analyze.  Heck, most adults don’t even do that.  People aren’t like you, Jen, striving to get to the bottom of every feeling.   Most people are too afraid of what they’ll find.   But at that age, it wasn’t about fear or anything.  You just sort of feel how you feel and are confused by it.  At that age I lacked the ability to try and reconcile that confusion.  It’s called puberty!

I really didn’t understand sex or have a desire for it.  I would vacillate between being scared by those fantasies and being turned on by them.  I didn’t have thoughts of penis-in-vagina sex or penis-in-anything sex.  I recall that following my spanking fantasies, my earliest thoughts regarding anything remotely related to actual penetration sex was having fantasies of him knowing I touched myself.  I can’t remember the actual details of the fantasy, but it was basically like in my mind I would tell him that I do it and he would spank me for it.  Kind of messed up.  Part pleasure, part guilt, part older man fantasy.  And I didn’t even know the term at the time, but in hindsight, part submission fantasy. 

I also remember thinking how mortified and embarrassed I would be if I actually told him I touched myself.  But I also distinctly remember being turned on by the thoughts of being so mortified and embarrassed.  In your words, I guess I was pre-wired to be turned on by making myself vulnerable.  But I never fantasized about actual PIV or even oral sex with him.

Jen:  I think having mixed feelings of guilt and pleasure regarding sex is normal at that age.  It can be so confusing.   Even for adults who attach a lot of guilt to sex.  Did you feel guilty about those fantasies?

Kayla:   No.  I never associated those feelings with guilt or of them being naughty.  Maybe it goes back to my mom’s reaction when she walked in on me after a bath as I was rubbing myself rather aggressively with a towel.  She set the tone that it wasn’t a big deal, but something that was personal and private.  I do remember feeling a bit scared about my fantasies, like, “What does this mean?”  “Am I normal?”  “Is this weird?”   But I think every kid goes through that when it comes to everything, let alone something dealing with sexual desires. 

Jen:  As you said, a lot of adults still deal with those questions, especially when it comes to kink.   Do you remember your first orgasm?  You’ve said it was about those thoughts with Mike.

Kayla: I like to think my first was over thoughts of him, but honestly I am not 100% sure.  I think I had some mini-orgasms before I had the first big “O” regarding my fantasies about Mike.  I  just didn’t recognize them as orgasms until I had a really intense one.   Are we supposed to be talking about this?  I was like 11.  Mike had to be what, in his late 30’s?

Jen:  It’s your fantasies we are talking about, so spill the beans here.  What was going on regarding those mini-orgasms.”  Set the scene!  My readers like filth.  And the details of this will be news to me and well, I like filth too!

Kayla:  Okay.  My first sexual experiences may not qualify as sexual experiences.  I mean, can you have a sexual experience without knowing what sex is?  Is sex defined by the area of your body that is being aroused or is it defined by intent?   Don’t you have some committee that determines these things?

Jen:  Hum… I’d have to check with the kink authorities on that.  But continue.

Kayla:  Ew.  I don’t like to think of it as sex and I definitely don’t like to think of it as kink.  My earliest memories of anything we would call remotely sexual was when I was like eight-years-old for god’s sake!

Jen:  Okay, okay.  I’ll rephrase.  What was your first experience where today, you recognize it as something that felt good in a way that today you would equate to a sexual feeling?   Better?

Kayla:   Uh, that’s not much better, because there is nothing at eight years old that felt like what sex feels like today.  But I will quit arguing the point and answer your question.  I vividly remember it because it is actually one of the few mother/daughter memories I have where her actions may have had a positive influence on me.   It was the incident with the towel that I mentioned a few questions ago.

I remember drying myself off with a towel and liking the feeling when I dried between my legs.  I probably was even younger than eight but it was never more than just a passing thought of, “Oh, that felt pretty good” and I’d move on to dry the rest of my body.   But at some point, maybe when I was eight, definitely no more than nine, instead of just a quick wipe with the towel and fleeting thought of, “that was nice,” I decided, “Hum, I should give that another wipe.”   A few baths later and it became many wipes and eventually full on rubs.   Over time I spent more and more time drying between my legs than I did the time before.  Eventually, I would put the towel between my legs with one hand in front of me and one behind and sort of ride the towel like a horse.  A horse that moved rapidly back and forth under me, haha.  It became a bath-time ritual.

I didn’t equate what I was doing to anything sexual.  It just felt good, really good.  It’s like, you know how the warm sun can feel good on your face when you walk outside?  That’s not a sexual feeling, it’s just a good feeling.   It was like that, except it wasn’t my face that got warm.  Ew, did I just say that?   Anyway, I had no clue what sex was and didn’t equate it to anything other than just a good feeling.   And when I did it, I would just reach some point where I was like, “Okay, I’ll stop now.” Time to finish drying or getting ready for bed or whatever.  Never another thought about it.   

Then one day my mom walked in on me, humping away at this towel that was buzzing back and forth between my legs. 

Jen:  How did I never hear this story before?

Kayla:   It’s to your credit that you never asked me about my sexual experiences in second grade!  What kind of perv would that make you!    (laughing)   But for real, I thought I told you about this.  I guess not.

Jen: So how did your mom react and how did you react?

Kayla:  I was cool.  I was like, “Oh, hi mom.”  I didn’t even know enough to think what I was doing was a big deal.  I don’t think I even stopped.  Maybe I slowed down a bit.   And the fact I don’t clearly remember much about her reaction sums up her reaction.  She didn’t have much of one.  She just calmly said, “If you’re going to play between your legs its best done in private, so lock the door when you do that.”

And two things stuck with me.  For a long time, I thought “play between your legs” was an actual phrase meaning to rub or touch yourself down there.  And in my mind, it was just play.  I didn’t know it could be sexual, because I didn’t even know that term.  More importantly, my mom’s reaction was such that it did not equate what I was doing with something should evoke shame or embarrassment.

But I guess as a kid you still sort of pick up on certain things.  While I felt it was normal enough to keep doing it and not feel guilty about it, I not only now knew from my mom that it was supposed to be a private thing that I did behind locked doors, but somehow I also knew it wasn’t something you talked about.  Fortunately, I didn’t go around to my friends and ask them if they also played between their legs.  I was already a bit of the weird kid anyway.  That would have been disastrous.

Jen:  So did you do it more often after that?

Kayla:  Eew, no.  I am telling you, it wasn’t a sex thing!  It was just a way to feel extra good after a bath.

Jen:  But you certainly didn’t stop doing it?

Kayla:  Hell no. 

Jen:  So let’s switch gears.  You said you were a weird kid.  In what way?

Kayla:  There’s the 10-year old Kayla answer and the current Kayla answer.  Which perspective do you want?

Jen:  Too much to ask for both?  Let’s start with kid-Kayla.

Kayla:  Kid Kayla thought everyone else was weird.  Well, I mean, I knew I was the oddball, but I felt I was odd because my supposed cohorts were weird.  I didn’t like kids my age.  I think it goes back to me wanting to be as small as possible so as not to upset my parents.  Be that perfect kid, be mature, be thoughtful.   Not that 14-year-olds are any of those things, but at age 10 I modeled myself after what I thought a 14-year-old should be.  I befriended older kids and they seemed to accept me.  Probably because in my mind they were the “better” kids in terms of the “right way” to be.  I admired them, looked up to them, emulated them.   That made it easy for me to be their friend because they liked how I treated them.  

As I got older, my friends always stayed older.  As a freshman in high school, my friends were seniors.  And the following year when many of them went off to college, their new college friends became my friends and so when I was 16 I had friends who were 20 to 23.

Jen:  Okay, what does the current Kayla think about why Kid Kayla was like that?

Kayla:  Honestly, it wasn’t until the last year or so I’ve figured that out, thanks in large part to you.  It was a self-esteem thing.  I was never truthful with my feelings as a kid.  The truth was too frightening.  A mom who cared more about drinking than about me.  More about making our lives miserable than about me.  A dad who may have tried his best, but couldn’t compensate for all that was missing for me.  I was fortunate that the way I reconciled this turned out to be somewhat productive.  Instead of acting out and being a wild child, I worked harder to be what I thought was the best child. 

At that moment I felt like I had high self-esteem.  I just “knew” I was a good kid, even though it wasn’t enough to bring about change in my mom.  But I know now that our self-esteem depends on how truthful we are with ourselves.  Because I was avoiding my true feelings and pretending that what I was doing was actually making a difference.  Not just pretending my actions helped my parents, but pretending my actions were helping me.  I was pretending I wasn’t being emotionally neglected.  And all the things I was doing to cope with that was not really addressing that.  When we aren’t truthful with ourselves, our self-esteem goes down.

I now know that is what led me to turn to alcohol as well.  You could say it was genetics, and maybe that played a part, but for me, I think it was the environment.  I didn’t feel good about myself because I didn’t know myself, I never faced my emotions.  As I felt those emotions coming to the surface I had to work harder to drive them down, and drinking helped do that for me.   Fortunately, I had you all to stop that from ever reaching a critical point.   

And that is why, as a child, I loved being around you guys.  I felt loved, I felt respected, I felt valued.  Not just from the two of you but from all three of the kids.  It was such a warm and nurturing environment.

Jen:  Thank you for saying that.  At the time, we knew things weren’t good for you on the home front.  We didn’t know all the details, but knew we were your respite.  And it wasn’t like you were just a charity case.  We truly loved having you around.  You were so good with J and T1 and T2 enjoyed your company.

Let’s fast forward to the day I shared with you that me and Mike adopted Domestic Discipline.   It really seemed to connect and resonate with you.  Things happened so fast from that day forward.  Why was that?

Kayla:  Well, first, maybe it helps to understand I already knew I was bisexual.  I had been with other girls, and at the time was living with a friend of mine and her husband and we would have threesomes.   While I was basically a “friend with benefits” to them, I found I liked the idea of being part of three.  I don’t know why.  Two friends are just better than one, right?  And then, of course, there’s the sex.   But it was more than that.  I just really liked being part of three.  However, I was not really that close to them.  I was definitely not in love with them.   Deeply in-like?  Is that a thing?

Jen:  It is now

Kayla:  So I was already predisposed to love the idea of being in a thruple.  Then you add in the fact that by far the two of you are my favorite couple.  Like, “favorite” didn’t even come close to describing it.  I idolized your relationship.  So the thought of being any part of it as an adult, not just a babysitter or kid?  Count me in!

And I was feeling a lack of control at the time.  I wanted to still be the perfect daughter but was drinking more and more myself, and I would feel guilty about that.  It was this loop of working hard to be perfect to cover up my feelings of being neglected, drinking to cope with my true feelings, feeling guilty about drinking, thus, once sober, working even harder to cover up my feelings.  And the loops got bigger and bigger.  I wanted off that roller coaster.  

And I was just getting ready to finish up my undergrad and was facing a decision to get a job, go to grad school, or move back home.  I didn’t feel prepared to make that decision, mainly because of my drinking.  I was feeling very anxious about that.  Everything about the two of you just felt right.  It felt safe, it felt sane.  I was attracted to the two of you, you to me, and it all just felt so right.  I really was in awe and so excited.

Jen:  Beyond the more meaningful relationship with us, what were your thoughts about DD?

Kayla:  It also resonated with me.   Perhaps because of my earlier fantasies, but also because I had always been so self-disciplined for all the wrong reasons, I loved the idea of striving to be self-disciplined as a way to serve someone else.  It’s like I had this power of self-discipline and could finally use it for good, and in return, focus that discipline on what is truly good for me.  I just knew the two of you had my best interests at heart. 

Jen:  Thank you.  We did, and we still do.

There’s so much more we could cover.  And I received a few emails with questions specifically for Kayla.  Some were practical things like how finances work, others about where she sees herself in 5 years, 10 years and beyond.   And then a few sex-related questions.   So — we will just have to do a Part III!

WONDERFUL NEWS
And the answer to some of those questions are revealed in some wonderful news that Kayla shared with us.  Should I wait for Part III to share it here?

Yes, I should. 

 

But, I won’t.

There will soon be a new addition to our family!

How long should I let that sentence linger?

A little longer?

Longer still?

Okay, long enough.

No, it’s not what you think.  Hum.  I really should save this for another post.

 

Okay, okay.  I will say it here.

The new addition isn’t really new, just new in name.

Kayla asked us, and we agreed, if she could legally change her last name to ours. 

Her name will soon officially be, Kayla Ours!   

Just kidding.  You know what I mean.  Her last name will be our last name.   It was something she thought of and very much wanted.  I will elaborate more on that in the next post.

What, you thought maybe the news was something different?

Next: 344. Kayla Interview Part III

342. Kayla Interview – Part I

Although I haven’t been posting much, I feel a renewed energy to do so.   It’s just that, well, things have been a little strange lately.  Do you sort of feel it too?  Can’t quite put my finger on what it is.   Just a different vibe in the world.   It’s probably just me.  

Mike and Kayla are both working from home.  Nothing new for Mike as he often worked from home.  His business pretty much runs as a virtual office.  Also, we’ve been fortunate that his business hasn’t slowed (yet).  For Kayla, the whole work from home is new for her company, but as I think many people are learning, there was no reason not to have previously allowed it.  She can do almost her entire job virtually.

Anyway, it’s different having them both home, although we don’t always stay at our house.  We are isolating within the family, limiting it to just the three of us and T1’s farm.  That means E, J, and by extension, interaction with E’s cousin’s next door to them.  That’s a group of 11 individuals.  A bit large but no different than a large family would have, and we all have become that – one large family.   In addition to the three of us spending more time at the farm, I’ve been going out to there a lot more just by myself, leaving Mike and Kayla at home for days on end.

I want to get you all caught up on my menagerie of relationships.   At some point, I want to share our Immersion 2020 experience.   And I wanted to at least acknowledge a very big anniversary for me — March 17 marked 5 years since we formally adopted a Domestic Discipline lifestyle. That is certainly worthy of a classic Jenny esoteric ramble!  But that will have to wait for another post.

Until then – I’ll catch you up with the latest from Kayla including some VERY BIG NEWS.  Suffice to say, we’ve come a long way since Meet the Baby Sitter.

KAYLA UPDATE
Kayla is now 25.  In October we celebrated a one-year commitment anniversary with her after she moved in with us at the end of 2016.  It’s been an amazing three years  (and three months) and the three of us are closer than I could have ever imagined.  It feels like she’s always been a part of us.  Incorporating her into our marriage and lives happened quickly and, by and large, very smoothly.

I shared that she started a full-time job last fall after completing her Master’s degree.  It was an adjustment as it was her first real job.  40 hour work weeks (sometimes more) can be quite the adjustment for anyone.  And for Kayla, who gets so much satisfaction from serving Mike, it meant adjusting to significant time away from that service.   She had to get creative to find ways to serve him while at work.

Some things that helped her with that transition include

• Love letters:   Sometimes from me, sometimes from Mike, sometimes from both of us.  Just a little letter that we put in an envelope that she opens on her lunch break.  It gives her something to look forward to and feel connected and thought of. . . and sometimes they are more lust-letters than love letters!   She sometimes leave us letters of her own.  Sure we could text, but letters are better!
  
• Sexy Selfies:   Simple and effective, both to her and from her!  She loves to send pics of herself flashing a boob or her butt. Normally from the bathroom, but sometimes a conference room.  Hopefully they don’t have cameras!   We don’t want her to get fired.
• Masturbation on command.  Mike may text her at any time and require she masturbate via Face Time.  She’s had to learn to quietly orgasm in the bathroom stall!  Mike does allow her to stay no if she has a meeting or working against a deadline.  Career over kink!

Jen:   Kayla, how do you explain your relationship status to people at work?

Kayla:  I’m married.  That’s where I start and usually, that’s where it ends.   Some end up asking, “What does your husband do?”  And the more “with it” coworkers keep it gender neutral and say, “What do THEY do?”  I will say, what he does, but then  I might add, “and my wife does x.”   That usually takes the conversation from casual small talk to one of significant intrigue on their part. 

I am open and honest.  I look to answer any question accurately, but only with enough information to satisfy the question.  It’s our policy!

(She’s referring to the policy we follow regarding “Tell if asked.”  The caveat is to only “tell” as much as needed to appropriately answer their question, which sometimes is a fine line such as her throwing in….”and my wife does x.”)

Jen:  I imagine it didn’t take long for the whole office to know.

Kayla:  Nope!  And I have a few pictures of us on my desk, so there’s that too.  Of course, I get a few, “Is that your parents?” comments, to which I answer, “No, it’s my partners.”

Jen: So do you describe us as your husband and wife or as partners?

Kayla:  It depends.  While legally I am not your wife, I believe the term husband or wife best describes the relationship, but sometimes “partners” is less shocking to the other person and they don’t seem to ask me as many questions.   If I am asked, “are you married” it is easier to just say “Yes” as that often ends the questioning.  If I said, “No, not legally, but…” well, then I just invite too many questions.  I am not opposed to answering questions, but sometimes the situation doesn’t warrant inviting the questions.  Typically the setting is just office small talk and thus not conducive to a longer conversation.  If it’s over lunch or something like that, I might respond in ways that invite more questions.

Jen:   Mike would be happy as that is our rule.  So, do you read my blog?

Kayla:  I have, here and there, but, I live those things with you and the things you blog you often talk about, so it’s like stuff I already know.  I sometimes like to just read the comments or the stuff that is about me.  Is that bad?

Jen:  Hum… if I say yes should you be spanked?  (laughing).   Of course not.  I haven’t provided a lot of background about you as I’ve always felt it is not my story to tell.  Well, now you can tell it.   I think… make that, I KNOW readers like the sizzle so give me a summary of what you see as your sexual evolution.

Kayla:  Sexual evolution?  That sounds so comprehensive.  How about I start first with some non-sexual stuff about my childhood?

Jen:  Sure, take it away.

Kayla:  My mom was emotionally absent and an alcoholic.  She was a closet alcoholic most of my early years but I always knew something was off.  As I got older she would be drunk more often.  She wasn’t an abusive drunk – more a nonsensical one and a depressed “woe-is-me, look what I’ve done with my life” one.   It always made me feel helpless since there wasn’t anything I could do about it.  I guess the one thing I was able to do was to try and be the perfect daughter.   I got excellent grades, stayed out of trouble, stayed pretty quiet and didn’t ask for much, which is good, because she had nothing to give emotionally.

Dad, on the other hand, was “normal,” whatever normal is.  He worked a lot which meant he wasn’t around, and I always longed for him to come home.  I felt excited when he would come through the door.  Like, “Yea! It’s time for normal!”   And he always tried to spend time with me.  If mom was particularly checked out, he would take me out for dinner.  Saturdays were “father-daughter” days.   We would always go do something that took all day.  Movies, zoo, museum, shopping, theme park, whatever.  He also tended to spoil me, giving me the material things I wanted.  Once I moved out he helped financially and every time I would see him he would give me whatever he had in his wallet.  I think he felt guilty.  A little about the fact he couldn’t do even more with me because of work, but mostly because he knew my mom couldn’t and didn’t contribute much to my well being.

Jen:  They eventually divorced.  How did that impact you?

Kayla:  Eee, yeah.  It did impact me, that’s for sure.  I was 15 and 16.   It was a mixed bag of emotions.  I think the uncertainty was the hardest part, but the actual news was a relief.  I saw it through my dad’s eyes as something he deserved to get out of.  But still, there was some anger as well, directed mostly at my mom since she was the root cause of it.  But even some anger at my dad, like, why couldn’t he have fixed her or even thinking why didn’t he just leave sooner.  Of course I know now that it wasn’t right to think that way, but that’s how I felt and thought at the time.  I also remember thinking maybe it would change my mom for the better.  That was wishful thinking.  She just doubled down on her drinking and depression.

Jen:  How did that make you feel?

Kayla:  I don’t remember ever feeling sorry for her. I reserved that feeling for my dad.  But in hindsight, I understand her choices better now.  They were still the wrong choices and she was weak for having behaved as she did.  But I now see her through the lens of her being a person, not a mom, if that makes sense.  I mean, as a kid, your parents are people you think have some special powers given to parents.  Like,  they are supposed to be endowed with special insights and knowledge about parenting.  As a kid you don’t realize they are just people, with their shortcomings as well as their own strengths.  The thought that they actually lack anything that qualifies them for parenting other than they were able to make a baby is too scary for a child to ever consider. 

Jen: So that’s now.  But what about then.  How did you deal with the various emotions you went through?

Kayla:  While most kids probably end up acting out like, I did what I normally did as a kid.  I doubled down on my goody-two-shoes persona.  I remember thinking, “If I can just make myself as small as possible, my problems will be smaller.”    I studied even harder, did more things around the house for both my mom and my dad, I didn’t complain, didn’t speak unless spoken to..  Let them complain to me.   That’s really where you and Mike come in.

Jen: How so?

Kayla:  I had been babysitting for you all for three or four years at that point, and you all always let me hang around.  I never had to be small around your family.   You, Mike, T1, T2, and J…everyone was so fun to be around.  It was my personal getaway and my chance to be big, not small.   Ha.  The irony just dawned on me.   Now I like to play “little,” yet you and Mike were the ones that gave me the confidence to be “big,” to be heard, to want to engage people around me.  Of course, it’s a different type of little and big, but still, that’s funny to me.

Jen:  Kink humor!   Before we get into our kinds and our relationship, how’s your relationship with your parents now?

Kayla:  Mom is about six years sober now, recently got a boyfriend, and I feel like I am getting to know her for the first time.  It’s strange and awkward at times, but she’s apologized and seems to be a good place emotionally and mentally.   I try to at least call her once a month and stop by maybe once a month or every other month.  We text more frequently lately.    

Dad is dad.  He checks in with me if I haven’t checked in with him recently.  You know I make it a point to see him, probably a week doesn’t go by where I don’t see him.  We have him over here now and then which I really like.

Jen:  That’s a good segue into our relationship.  How did your parents handle that?

Kayla:  As much as you say kids don’t want to know about their parent’s kink, it’s also true that parents don’t want to know about their kid’s kink.  They basically both knew I was bisexual.  I mean, I had never announced it in some declaration.  But I never hid it either.  And before moving in with you I was living with a friend and her husband in sort of a poly-light type relationship.   As you know, in that relationship I was more of a third wheel that was a friend with benefits. It wasn’t really a deep and meaningful relationship.

But no surprise, they were a bit shocked and concerned when I told them I was doing more than just living at your house.  They had initially just thought of it as the two of you just helping me out.  I let them think that for a while.  It was just easier, and I didn’t know where things would really go in our relationship.   But I eventually told them, very straightforward.  “I am in a relationship with Mike and Jen.”   

Because they knew you and already had positive thoughts about you, they didn’t seem to focus on thoughts of perhaps you all were taking advantage of me.   There was a little bit of that, but not much.  It was mostly, “Are you sure?”  “Why would you want that?”  “What’s in it for you?”   “Be careful.”   They both were more focused on me and my decision, which I expected.   My parents were never much about getting mad at others or blaming others.

The one behavior they both modeled for me was personal responsibility.  This may sound odd from an alcoholic mom, but even in her drunken stupors or non-drunk depressive moods, she never railed against the world.   She always blamed herself for her situation.  I guess in some weird ways that had a positive impact on me.   And dad, of course, was always big on personal responsibility.   If I could show him I gave a decision its’ proper consideration, he always supported me.

Jen:   It’s time to throw a bone to my readers, or a boner to the male readers, and use this to segue to more kinky stuff.

UNFORTUNATELY, this post is already pretty epic.  Some I am going to end it here and do a Part II with Kayla, including some pretty amazing and meaningful news that she announced.

NEXT 343:  Kayla Part II.  Kayla Ours – A New Addition

 

341. Dealing with Covid 19. Anxiety, Control, Donating, Talking, . . . and Blanket Forts!

I feel a bit like Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burned.  Of course, my fiddling involves my clit! LOL.

Seriously though, with all that’s going on it seems rather self-indulgent to talk about my sexploits.  We had our annual Immersion the week of March 8.  The theme of Immersion 2020 was “Swapfest.”  Think of it as the complete opposite of  “social distancing.”  At least our “fluid exchange” was limited to just a small group of friends who all were, and are, reporting that they are completely healthy.   In hindsight, it was dumb of us to have done that, but March 8, was a different world than March 23.

I had a TTWD-related post ready to go,  but before I post that one I felt compelled to throw in my Covid-19 commentary.   So let’s put aside the kink and get serious for a moment and remind ourselves of some things we may easily forget in these times —

ANXIETY
People who deal with anxiety, depression, cognitive impairments, or mental illness may be more severely impacted by the added stress and worry.
Even if you or a family member doesn’t have any of those issues, anxiety levels are higher for all of us, even the otherwise “normally” functioning people.  (Hey, who just said, “Jen, sorry to tell you, but YOU are NOT “normally functioning!”  I heard that.  Come on, admit it.  It was you!).

CHILDREN
Children process information differently and can be more stressed than adults, which in turn can cause added stress for the parents.   Creating a routine can reduce stress, so find a way to structure their days at home and give them something fun and exciting to look forward to.  A family game night, or movie night (pretty much endless movies available on streaming services).

Your family may be distancing from society, but don’t isolate from each other within a household.  Find things to do collectively.  

Use it as an opportunity to teach kids how to prepare a meal (or if that doesn’t excite them, make a cake or cookies).  There are all sorts of things you can do to try and keep the kids from bouncing off the walls.   Go through old photo albums or your high school yearbook with them.  Walk around the block together, google arts and crafts – it’s amazing what you can do with a toilet paper roll and some glue.  Build an awesome blanket fort with them, google how to make cool paper airplanes…. there’s a lot of fun things you can do to keep kids entertained beyond video games.    And finding things you can do with them will allows you an opportunity to do this thing with them called “talking” which is the very best activity you can do with them right now.   

Even if there aren’t kids at home, it might be fun to do some of these things with a spouse or an older child.  Who doesn’t love a cool blanket fort?  

CERTAINTY AND CONTROL
Everyone deals with uncertainty by trying to add a level of certainty and control to whatever they can.   For some it may be subtle and positive – organize that closet, garage, or room that is in disarray, or simply re-arrange the furniture in your house.  For others it may not be so subtle or positive – demand those around us behave and act a certain way, become controlling, demanding.   Or it may be more innocuous – buy all the toilet paper you can get your hands on.

Another constructive thing is to sit down and review your finances – make a budget for the first time – look and see where you money has been going.  Look into any insurance you may need, assuming you feel good about your income and ability to pay for it.   We are all living the unexpected, so some people may feel better about owning insurance that deals with other unexpected things in life.

All of these are things some people may do to try and feel a sense of control in the face of uncertainty.   It’s our way of coping and saying, “you may have disrupted a significant part of my life, but I’ll be damned if I have get reduced to using an old t-shirt to wipe my butt.”  That sounds like it is a joke, but it isn’t.  Really.  Buying certain essentials, like toilet paper, has a positive psychological benefit in times of uncertainty.

What have you done to get your mind of things and that gives you some semblance of order and control? Would love to see you share that in the comments.

DONATE
Donating can give us a positive emotional lift!  Social services will be stressed in many areas.   Donate to Meals on Wheels or some other local charity that will be challenged to provide more services.  If you prefer to help animals, most Zoo’s are ran as non-profits relying on attendance to stay afloat.  Close the zoo and their primary source of revenue stops. They need donations.

Even if it is just $10, it feels good and makes you feel like you are doing something more than just organizing a closet or buying toilet paper.  

Realize that most businesses are NOT multi-billion dollar corporations.  They often have enough cash on hand that if they close their doors they might be able to make payroll once, maybe twice if they are lucky.  Then – they are done.  And that small business that supplies services or materials to larger businesses — if the small business is gone, the larger business can’t get what they need.  I am no financial prognosticator, but 4 out of 5 submissive kinky housewife’s agree that we could see 20% unemployment in the U.S.   While the government works out stimulus and bail out options, WE can all choose empathy and compassion.  It’s free, but admittedly can be in short supply.

TALK!
Another free activity!  We don’t always know what the next person or family member is dealing with or how they are dealing with it, so be extra compassionate.    Don’t add the their dread.  Throwing a pity party will only bring both of you down.  Sometimes just asking someone how they are doing can be very therapeutic.    Call friends, call family members, even those you haven’t connected with in a long time.  They may not want to talk, which is fine, but you might be surprised.  If they do talk, then just talk to them.    Just show empathy and compassion and try not to project your own worry and stress on them – because here’s a tip — they’ve got plenty already!

Don’t add to the uncertainty by saying, “I heard this happened,  I heard that is going to happen…”   Be in listen only mode.  Think of it as an  opportunity to be a calm and friendly voice.   These folks may have only talked to other concerned friends and relatives, or is getting all their news from Facecrook, er, Facebook.  You might be the only person they’ve talked to who hasn’t freaked out over the fact that, most certainly, the virus is a precursor to a bigger attack by alien demons who are controlled by the devil who has been set free because of gay marriage.

HELP MAY BE OUT THERE
People often aren’t aware of the social services that may be available in their area, so remind them they shouldn’t hesitate to reach out to local services if they or a family member needs help.   Almost every community has Meals on Wheels type programs for elderly.   There’s typically mental health crisis support and a host of other services, many of which can be accessed just by phone.  A google search is typically all it takes to find out what social services or charity services are available in a given city.   

There may be a wait lists and it’s not an end-all be-all solution, but it’s worth knowing and they can start looking into it if they are concerned about an elderly relatives access to food (or their own access).   Or, they may not have ever used Grub Hub or other food delivery service (if available in your area).   If you have, share with them how easy it was.  It can be expensive to eat that way all the time, but having occasional take-out at home can at least break up some monotony (assuming restaurants are open, and in some areas they are for take-out only).                  

So if you’ve already stocked up on toilet paper, it’s time to clean your closet. . . or build that blanket fort!  

Stay safe, and for now, suspend the kink, unless it is with someone you are isolating with.  (Hum…worldwide baby boom in December?)

Next: 342. Kayla Interview – Part I