85. Bright or Dark? Source of Submission.

lite

If you read my last few posts (82 or 84), you know that Donna is staying with us while John is out of the country on business.  The first part of last week was hard on Donna as John required her to be subject to all my rules, and only my rules.  Having to forsake her normal routine and acts of submission was emotionally difficult.   She enjoyed the later part of the week and the weekend as John required her to only follow her normal rules, with Mike filling in for John.

Direction, Discipline, and Service.
I’ve always known John and Donna follow a different D/s relationship compared to Mike and me.  Donna really enjoys, craves, and is fulfilled by direction, discipline, and service. As for me, I like the Service the most, Discipline is good – a nice mix of pain and pleasure – but I don’t really delve into the Direction part.  I don’t seek Mike’s input on a lot of daily decisions. Part of it is that so much of my day is being a mother, and the decisions need to be made quickly.  I will give this more thought.  Perhaps there are more things I could be doing to be more submissive around “Direction.”  I kind of look at is as a nuisance to Mike if I have to seek too much direction from him.  I do defer a lot to him as it is, but I am sure I could do more.  Humm…something for me to think about and talk about with Mike.

Anyway, John set out the rules for this week and it surprised me.  He once again ordered Donna to follow my rules, from this morning (Monday) through when she wakes up on Friday.   I thought this might be devastating to Donna but she took it well.  She told me that it is much easier this week and I was surprised by her reasoning.  She said she is upbeat about it because she knows it will be difficult for her and more importantly, John knows it too, but John wants her to do it anyway.  It’s like, she feels more submissive, and thus more comfortable doing it, precisely because it is difficult for her and John knows it and is requiring it anyway.  Bottom line, she feels more like “his” submissive this week, even though she is following my rules.  Interesting!

SubmissionThe Dark Side or the Bright?
Spending all this time with Donna means we’ve been able to talk a lot. We’ve talked a lot about our personal motivations and satisfaction regarding submission.  I’ve always admitted that my submission is a bit “light” compared to Donna’s, but she made an interesting observation about my submission.   She said that she feels my submission comes from a “bright” place, and that hers is more from a “darker” place.  And, while she has not known many people who are submissive, her belief is that most cravings for submissiveness comes from a “darker” place and that I was not the norm.

What she meant by dark is that in her mind the submissive has some history that includes perhaps at least some neglect or belittlement, or at worst some physical or sexual abuse.   If not any of those, then at least a depression or high anxiety of other origin.

I’ve only known one submissive –Donna. She has met a few other than me, but didn’t know them well, so our sample size is basically limited to our personal experiences.  I disagreed with her and told her that I think it is her own personal confirmation bias talking.  We all relate best to our own experiences, and tend to assume that people who are like us must have also had similar experiences and have similar motivations.   I told her I’ve never read anything about this so can only assume that like most things in life, people involved in various TTWD run the gamut of life experiences.  That includes whether or not TTWD include D/s or any other kink.  My guess is there is no set profile of “dark” or “bright” (as she called it).

I do admit that her past has some physical, emotional, and sexual trials and tribulations that I’ve been fortunate enough not to experience.  I also admit that those experiences play a role in the colloquial “things we do” as well as in the kink culture TTWD.  I do not believe a specific set of life experiences predisposes someone to seek out a D/s relationship.  As this is just a gut feeling, I am open to the fact I could be wrong.

I also sensed condescension in her tone.  As if she was a “real” submissive and I was just playing like one.  That’s a bit of an over dramatization, but, I still felt that she was inferring this.  Funny thing, but I know in my discussions with Kayla that I’ve done far worse than just infer this.  When I was still feeling resentful about the Kayla situation I told Kayla that this was a serious life choice for me and I couldn’t accept her just doing it as a lark.  Funny how the tables have turned and Donna was basically saying something similar to me.

I avoided feeling offended by Donna as I was able to relate to what she was feeling.  I even told her how I related this to my situation with Kayla.    I agreed her submission is “deeper” than mine, but mine was made to fit me and Mike, not her and John.  It also made me realize even more that it is extremely important that Kayla is allowed to create something that fits Kayla, assuming submission is even a route she decides to go.  And so what if she is just “trying it on for size?”  There isn’t anything that says she has to be committed for life.  Heck, even I eased into the current level of submission I have with Mike.  We don’t owe the submissive lifestyle a certain “level” of submission.  My conversation with Donna just reinforced with me that we should encourage each other to find and maintain a lifestyle that brings us the most joy and fulfillment, whatever that lifestyle may be. 

I wonder if there have been any studies out there about submissives?  Specifically in the Domestic Discipline sense and specifically with the woman as submissive – although it would be interesting to see if the findings are similar with male submissives.  And I don’t mean Christian Domestic Discipline.  I mean regarding women who clearly had options and alternatives and sought out a D/s or a Domestic Discipline relationship of their own volition, absent any family or community/religious expectations.

My bet is we would find that we come from all walks of life, all ages, and a wide range life experiences.  Some great, some good, some not-so-good, and yes, some very bad too.  Oh, what do I know?  I’ve apparently got the “bright” form of submission which according to Donna predisposes me to see everything with rose-colored glasses.  Maybe so.  Maybe not?

86.  Nature vs. Nurture.  Finding my DD.

84. Happy Place

observant

This post is mostly about Donna.  There was an “incident” this week worth sharing regarding our “experiment” with Donna staying with us while John is away. (I shared the story of when Mike went out of town in this post).   As I mentioned in another prior post, John required Donna to follow all the rules I am subject to, just as if my contract with Mike applied to her.  That lasted through yesterday and starting today she went back to her normal rules with Mike filling in for John.

Having Donna around has been wonderful.  I’ve had a lot of free time this week as the tasks get done in no time.   In addition to the helping hand from a fellow sub, I have a friend to talk with and, as a final bonus, an extra lover to share with.  As I suspected though, it has been far easier on me and Mike than it has been on Donna.  Here’s what happened:

THE INCIDENT
There was a point in the day yesterday where we weren’t quite done with our tasks when Donna proclaimed she was taking a break.  I told her I appreciated her help but the responsibility with the chores are mutual, and I prefer we finish before taking a break.  She encouraged me to take a break as well, but I told her I could not.  I didn’t want to come off as the bitch, but, I wanted to get everything done first.

I shared with her that I learned from experience that if I procrastinate, things can happen and then the tasks don’t get done.  That would be unacceptable to me and to Mike.  And – we didn’t have that much more to do anyway!   Her logic was, “Well Jen, since there isn’t that much more to do, you can just do it.”    So I did, but told her was compelled to tell Mike.

I reminded her that John asked Mike to question us about the day and specifically ask if she did her fair share.  I told her I cannot lie to Mike and would have to tell him.  I felt bad.  Donna was a huge help and I know this has been hard on her.  But, John set this rule for her and she should understand that rules from our Sirs are, well, the rules.  She wasn’t open to hearing me and flippantly said, “As long as everything is done what’s the big deal and tomorrow I can make up for it.”

I responded that I was not in a position to barter on behalf of John.  She continued to resist and said, “I’ve pretty much done my fair share today.”   I told her that this was true up to the point she sat down, but unless she gets up and helps finish things up that it would be untrue.  She shrugged me off.

In the evening when our son was watching TV, Mike pulled Donna and me aside to ask us about our day. He of course asked about the fair share of the workload.  I looked at Donna and said, “Sorry, Donna, but I have to be truthful.”  I proceeded to tell Mike what had happened.

SPANKING
Mike ordered both of us to the bedroom.  We both went to my room, disrobed, and stood in separate corners waiting for Mike.  It was a bit over an hour before he finally came in as he waited for our son to go to bed.  That was the longest I’ve ever stood in the corner and I was puzzled why I should be punished for Donna’s behavior.

When Mike came in he called us over and asked each of us bend over and he gave us each some warm ups with his hand.  He asked us why we were being punished.  Donna stated it was because she didn’t do her fair share of the work today, but for me, I had no clue.

Mike confirmed Donna explanation and added that John was explicit in his instructions and her failure to obey them by not doing her fair share was indeed why he would need to spank her.  Then, per our rules Mike administered another spanking on me for not knowing the reasons why I was being punished.  He then told me the reason. I was being punished for apologizing to Donna.   WTF?!?

Mike said that I should never apologize for my submission.  Being truthful is part of my submission and not something to apologize for.  He said my apology was basically apologizing for being submissive.  He said if my submissiveness inconveniences Donna, so be it.  No different than if Donna’s submission to John inconveniences me.   Mike said I was being punished for being disrespectful to my own submission.

Whoa!  I was a bit dumbfounded.  Part of me was thinking, “Are you serious?” while another part of me was, “Wow, Mike, how observant and creative, and yes, you are absolutely correct!”

Mike said this was a serious issue and the spanking was going to be with the prison strap.  He skipped the “Over/Under” game which was another signal to me that he was in a more serious mood about this transgression.   I got 17, then Donna got 12.

MISSING JOHN
Uncharacteristically, Donna cried and got very emotional.  She takes punishments very stoically and I’ve seen her gleefully take far worse in “fun” scenes her and John put on for us.  As I shared before, their relationship is a bit more M/s and BDSM.  I knew it wasn’t because of the sting from the spanking.

Donna apologized to me and Mike and reassured us it wasn’t anything we did.  She shared that it was hard being out of her normal routine.  In the past when John was gone she at least had her routine to keep her “observant,” as she put it.  Even though John ordered her to follow my routine, it just didn’t feel “observant” to her.   She said a part of her wanted to rebel and that was her motivation for not finishing the work.

She has been at this submissive thing much longer than me and really relies on John to keep her centered and focused.  I hadn’t really considered that submissiveness can lead to a greater dependency on the Dom.  You get so accustomed to giving such incredible focus on the needs of your Dom and being “observant” to your submission that you feel out of sync when your Dom isn’t around.

MY REFLECTIONS
I know I missed Mike when he was out of town, but I didn’t miss him the way Donna misses John.  I think having my son to focus on and still having my routine made it easy for me when Mike was gone.   Although John did task her following my rules from Sunday to Wednesday, it still didn’t feel quite like she was serving him.  She said it felt like she was serving Mike and me.

The good news was this occurred on the last day she had to adhere to the rules I have.   Today she was extremely upbeat and cheerful.  At the moment I am writing this she and Mike are over at her house getting some daily “treatment” that John usually gives her.  It involves hot wax, vibrator, whip, and sex.   What a treatment!  Afterwards Mike will come home and Donna will stay home awhile longer and Skype with John, which will include some kinky acts I am sure. Then Donna will come over and spend the night with us.

I am not sure what John has in store for her starting Sunday, as he indicated he would have further changes in routine for Donna to follow.  Both Mike and Donna will share with John what happened and the reasons why, so perhaps John won’t revert back to having her be subject to my routine and rules.  I know between Mike and John they will come up with something creative and rewarding for Donna.

Interesting, but Donna still helped out today with all my chores.  There were three major differences.  One, it was her choice to help out.  Two, she got to do them with her collar on.  Finally, she got to wear her “item of the day.”   John and Donna have a TTWD where one hour a day she has to wear the “item of the day.”   It could be a tack bra (and she has a mean looking tack bra made with upholstery tacks), butt plug, nipple/clit clamps, ankle or wrist cuffs, and I am sure I am forgetting some other things.,   Yes, sometime she has to walk around with her feet cuffed. There is enough slack that she can walk, but she has to take very small steps.  Although Mike and I haven’t tried everything they do, you can see where I get some of my ideas!

I am glad this incident resolved itself amicably.  More fun and adventure ahead!  I learned that Donna’s happy place is when she is mindful and observant to her submission.  I have identified many words in several different posts to describe my own feelings about submission – calm (Post 23), love, sexy,  and sensible (Post 27), open (Post 30),  fulfilling (Post 33), but I forgot the most basic one.

Happy!   Submission is my happy place too.

Next:  85.  Light or Dark?  Source of Submission.

83. Over/Under – A spanking game!

matchgame

As Monty Python says…”And now for something completely different!”

Here is something new and creative that Mike and I added to my Rewards.   Occasionally Mike will decide that the number of strokes I will receive will be determined by a game we call “Over/Under.” Mike picks a number of strokes he feels are reasonable but does not tell me. I then have to guess and give the number I think is reasonable. The ultimate number of spankings I will receive are based upon how far off I am and whether I went Over or Under his number.

If I underestimate the number, he takes his number and subtracts my number to get a “gross” number of swats. He then DOUBLES the gross number and adds it back into HIS original number and that becomes my new “net” number of swats.
For example – if he picked 11 and I picked 7. 11 minus 7 = 4. Doubling the 4 equals 8. The 8 is then added to HIS original 11, and the new net number is 19.  

If I overestimate the number, he takes my number and subtracts his number to get a “gross” number. He then ADDS (not doubles) the gross number back into MY original number and that becomes my new “net” number of swats.
For example, if he picked 7 and I picked 11.  11 minus 7 =4.   The 4 is then added to MY original 11 and the new net number is now 15.

If I pick it correctly, then the strokes are cut in half.
For example, he picked 11 and I picked 11. Half of 11 is 5.5 and the rule is we always ROUND UP! So, the new net number is now 6.

Mike will first tell me both the implement and level of impact he has in mind. I know automatically that some implements mean fewer strokes and the harder the impact, the fewer the strokes.   I’ve found the less impactful implements are the hardest to figure out. One time for a moderate hand spanking I guessed 30 and he had chosen 60.   So I ended up with 120!! (60-30 = 30. 30 x 2 = 60. 60+60=120).

Most of the time I am pretty close, but Mike no longer picks easy round numbers like 20 or 30. That would be too easy!   He also tends to start with a little lower number than usual, knowing that more than likely we will be adding to it.   How sweet of him (touch of sarcasm).

I’ve found that the absence of this game makes the Reward more solemn than ever.  It’s like, “Wow, Mike doesn’t even want to play.  This is really serious.”  Conversely, when we do play it, it adds more levity to a Reward and makes them less solemn and more joyful.  Yes, spankings can be even MORE joyful if you put some fun and creativity behind it.  Yes, there is a touch of sarcasm there, but mostly just truth.  I find the mix of pain and pleasure very joyful so anything that adds to that is a bonus.

Game anyone?  I am thinking of a number . . .

NEXT:  84. Happy Place. 

 

 

 

82. Enjoying the Ride

enjoyride

Okay, time to talk about something other than Kayla for a bit. Here’s a bit of a succulent story to quiver your cravings.

So John left Sunday for a trip overseas. He’ll be in the Middle East doing some engineering stuff that engineers do. We made up our spare room for Donna. The room is off our master bedroom, not that Donna slept there Sunday night or last night, nor is she likely to any other night, hee-hee.

It was different to sleep three-to-a-bed (yes, at some point, we did get to sleep, tee-hee!). We couldn’t decide if Mike should be in the middle, or Donna, or me. I preferred me in the middle because I like to be the center of attention!  John set some rules for her for this week. Through the end of tomorrow she is only subject to ALL of my rules and NONE of hers. It was quite an adjustment for her. Following my rules wasn’t the hardest part – the biggest challenge was for her to remember NOT to follow her own rules. While Donna hasn’t enjoyed being outside her comfort zone, she has enjoyed the fact that it is what John required and thus, is just another twist in her submission.

A Twist!
After tomorrow she then has to switch to all her own “normal” rules, with Mike acting in John’s role. This means that there will be times where Mike has to go “help Donna move some furniture” or, “help Donna fix a leaking faucet” or whatever other excuse we can give our son for Mike needing to go over to Donna’s house with her.   The reason for this is that there are certain activities that John requires that will occur while our son is home, and thus the need to do them in the privacy of Donna’s house.   Suffice to say they involve a mix of pain and pleasure. I believe I shared before that John and Donna’s TTWD have a greater degree of BDSM and M/s compared to Mike and I.

Another Twist!
We are a bit alike in that Donna isn’t all that into submitting to someone other than her husband. What makes it enjoyable to her is that it is what John wants, so her submission to John is paramount and the only reason she is submitting to Mike. The added twist is that starting Thursday when she returns to her normal rules, she has to submit to both Mike and to me! I am accountable for administering any punishment if she has an infraction and Mike is not around, PLUS, I specifically have to administer her maintenance. In addition, she must call me “Ma’am! Donna did not express any concerns with this.

She said she is very focused on being in her “submissive” mindset and wanting to please John while he is away. She said that focusing on remembering my rules through tomorrow, and on what happens starting Thursday, is her way of honoring John while he is absent. She said her submission is a way of feeling that he is still present, and that warms her heart.   She is very dedicated and I admire that in her.

As for me, I guess I am looking at it more from the perspective of her friend, not from the perspective of me being submissive. While I know what I am doing is also part of my submission, it just doesn’t have that same feel to me as I am feeling for Donna. I don’t look at what I have to do as that big of deal compared to her.   It will be odd to hear her say “Yes, Ma’am,” “No, Ma’am” and such, and it will be odd to spank her. The mental adjustment on my part seems slight compared to hers.

That’s not to say I look upon this with trepidation. I am looking forward to it in a positive way. I think it will be interesting to learn how I really feel when it actually occurs and believe I will learn something about myself that I don’t know today. As for Donna, I can tell it brings her happiness because it honors John, but perhaps that is just keeping her from really thinking about it. I am curious what she will have to say when it is over.

Final Twist?
The rules are then up in the air starting Sunday. John and Donna will discuss it, as will Mike and I and John and Mike. Then, we’ll see what clever things the boys come up with! John isn’t back until November 19, so they have a long time to come up with creative ways to “torment” us.  I can’t wait to see what they come up with.

Wow.  Kayla, and now this. To think that just a few posts ago in 71. Good Girl, I was opining the routine in my Domestic Discipline!   I am enjoying this fun and wild ride!

It makes me wonder – I am putting out a vibe that attracts this adventure, or am I just lucky to stumble into these adventures?   I’ll save that pondering for some future esoteric ramble. Until then, I’ll just continue to enjoy the ride!

Next: 83. Over/Under. A Spanking Game.

81. Expectations

expect
Just a quick post about Kayla and then I’ll post something new and sizzling. After five straight posts about her, starting with 76. Meet the Babysitter, it’s time to share other things. . . after this brief message.

Expectations are Premeditated Resentments.
As mentioned in my last post, I feel so much better about the situation. Being more in control of the decision has really opened my mind up to better explore the possibilities. I’ve been clear with Kayla that I need her to share her expectations with us, and we will continue to share ours with her.

It reminds me of one of my favorite sayings,  “Expectations are premeditated resentments.” That is, our expectations set us up for future resentment. In other words, the root of all resentment are the expectations we had that were not fulfilled.  It is akin to what I explored in my post 30. I Found My Thrill.

It may sound like I am beating a dead horse but I am pushing Kayla to search inside herself and understand and articulate her expectations – and Mike and I are doing the same searching. (I wonder how “beating a dead horse” translates internationally? No, it’s not a BDSM euphemism, but it sounds like it could be!).

Bottom line – If expectations are aligned (doesn’t mean they have to be the same, just not in conflict), then we greatly reduce the risk of resentment rearing its ugly head.

Okay, I promise, no Kayla on the next post!

82. Enjoying the Ride

80. Breakthrough – what a week.

breakthru

I have only previously blogged about stuff that has happened and that I resolved already, or perhaps that happened and I resolve within my next post.  Sorry that this has turned into my own little soap opera where the plot lines barely budge.  Such is life!

So yes, once again my topic is about Kayla.  But, if you can stand this awfully long post, there was a breakthrough today!!.  No, not a clearer path forward, but, to be exact, clearer paths from which to choose, with “choice” being the operative word.

I thought about breaking this up into two posts, but this is already my fifth straight post about this situation that all started less than a week ago. (If  you want to start from the beginning, you can start at 76. Meet the Babysitter).  I don’t want to bore you and thus think it is time to put this topic to rest until there is some clearer resolution.  I’ll try to post about something else next time.

I left off at my last post stating that I asked Kayla to better articulate how she envisions our relationship if it were to become sexual.  She doesn’t have classes on Friday’s and spent practically the entire day with me, from about 8 this morning until about 4.  Oh, here’s a chance to share a bit more with you about Kayla.

MORE ABOUT KAYLA
She graduates in a few months.  She is leaning towards taking the Spring semester off and starting grad school next fall.  Her father does well and I think both her parents make up for some of their shortcomings by providing financial support.  While she has worked a few part-time jobs here and there, she has mostly volunteered her time.  Her parents (mostly her dad) fully pay for her school and give her a nice monthly allowance and she has a car.

She has talked about moving out of her mom’s at the end of this semester and getting her own apartment but would need a roommate to make it work.  Even if she wouldn’t start classes until next fall, her dad offered to up her allowance and help with living expenses if she does decide to enroll in a Master’s program for next fall and decides to move out at the end of this semester.   Even with that help she wants a roommate to keep the costs down and just feels safer living with someone.  She is currently talking to friends and looking for roommate prospects.

I would share more about her parents but since I am using her real name I figure I shared enough already.  Suffice to say there are some challenges she has faced in her upbringing that make it all the more remarkable that she does not have the types of personal issues you might expect.  She credits having a couple of good role models – Her aunt and us!

I was touched by her telling us this.  She shared more about how she always paid close attention to how people interacted and was very aware that her parents were not representative of how it could be or how it should be.  While there were times it was tough to not blame herself, she mostly understood it as their problem, not her problem, and thus didn’t take a lot of the disappointment personally.  She said that both her aunt and us were so loving and nurturing that she never fully felt “wrong, weird, or unloved.”  I think that is amazing, especially when she talks about thinking that way when she was a little girl.  Sad that a child had to show that maturity, but I guess it is also fortunate that she did because it allowed her to cope in more positive ways.   Yes, I feel she has some abandonment issues, but she doesn’t do drugs and appears to be very stable emotionally.

She said she always felt older than she was, which is why her friends always tended to be 3-5 years older than her, if not more.  It was also why she loved to hang around us so much.  I can’t tell you how many times over the years she would come over or join me on an outing, offering to help even when it wasn’t for pay.   When her parents divorced when she was 15, she stayed with us for about week as her dad moved out and her mom “came to terms” (I’ll just call it that), with her new reality.

BACK TO OUR CONVERSATION
I asked her what her “dream” relationship with us would look like.

She admitted that she was still formulating that in her mind, and that she thought having time to think all this through was beneficial.   She has also been reading up on Domestic Discipline and Dom/sub relationships.  She said the thought of all of that is new, but not completely foreign.  She did have a boyfriend once who liked to tie her up, just her hands and legs.  She found it very thrilling and likes the thought of giving up control, but, that was specifically around sex and not day-to-day or with spanking.  She has never been spanked before.

She said a part of her just wants to have fun, more the “F*ck Buddy” scenario, a casual sexual relationship.  She used John and Donna as an example.  She asked, “Why not just something like that?”

I responded that certainty that was one of the options we’ve been talking about and then I went into all my previously stated concerns that could result.

But, she said she does think about something more intimate, more of a relationship.  She’s already the third wheel in a casual sexual relationship with her best friend and her best friend’s boyfriend.  She said she definitely doesn’t want a second one like that and would stop having sex with them if the three of us were having sex.  But she said the thoughts of that just don’t seem as fulfilling to her as what she would like to have right now.

She said she also can envision being part of our dynamic, a “fellow sub.”    Ugg, that word “fellow” is a trigger word for me, I had to remind myself to stay compassionate and loving as she meant no harm in using those words.

I held back my impulse to say, “Look missy, you will never be “fellow” anything.  The pecking order would be Mike, me, and THEN you, get it.  We may both submit to Mike, but you follow my lead too, and don’t think for a second you’ll somehow have less expected of you than what is expected of me…blah, blah, blah, anger, anger, anger.”

Instead, I did say, “again, that is one of the options we’ve been talking about and in that arrangement, I would not be comfortable with you as a “fellow sub.”   While to some extent we would be in it together, I would also want you to defer to me in some way.  I haven’t figured out what that means yet, but I know that one of my stumbling blocks is that I cannot accept you a peer.  A close friend, confidant, and lover, yes, but, “peer”, no.  I told her this is my hang-up for thinking this way, not her hang-up for wanting it that way.  Perhaps over time I could see it differently, but I know that is not going to change any time soon.”

We also talked about my concern for her thinking it as a “game.”  After all, she would have her life to go back to.  It is hard to be a part-time sub.   What, she comes over for a few hours and is submissive?  I just don’t see that working.  In order for me to be comfortable I need to feel she is more committed.

LIVING ARRANGEMENTS?
Then Kayla had an epiphany that perhaps seems obvious to you, but Mike and I missed it.  What if she moved in with us?   Yikes, a whole different proposition and potential for problems.

Let me give a bit more context about the potential living arrangements.  We have a four bedroom house and we have a large master bedroom that has double doors to enter.  When you enter, immediately off to the left is a whole other bedroom.  To the right it goes into the master bedroom.   When the house was built we had an option of putting a door in the hallway to lead to the fourth bedroom, or, leave the hallway wall intact, and put the door on the inside of the master bedroom entry way.  We opted for that because when my son was smaller, we liked him being basically right next to us.  We later installed another set of doors to the right of the master entry way, such that when you enter the double doors, to your left is the door to the spare bedroom, and the right is another door into the master.   We did this for added privacy, and because we have used that room as a guest room and someone usually has to sleep in it when all my boys are home at the same time.

Well, if I suspend all judgement just for the moment and entertain the thought of her moving in, it would make sense that we could make that Kayla’s room.  We also have one other spare bedroom, but it used a lot by my other son when he is home, and still has a lot of his stuff in it.  Our fourth room has become my husband’s office.

Then there is the issue of my son.  It may help to understand a bit more about his relationship with Kayla.  Although there is only a 5 year age difference chronologically, with my son’s special needs he is more like an 11-12 year old on many levels vs 16.   And Kaya, as I already talked about, is wise beyond her years and perhaps is more like a 30-year-old than 21.  And my son sees her the same way.  When he was actually about 8-9 years old he started calling her Ms. Kayla, even though she was 13-14 at the time.   We joked at that time that perhaps subconsciously our son figured out that since Kayla now had breasts, she deserved the title of “Ms.” Whatever the reason, he has looked at her as an adult for some time.  Furthering that mindset is that many times for many years, we’ve told him before, “let the adults talk” or “don’t worry, that is something us adults can be concerned with.”  Yet we were including Kayla as one of those “adults” even though she was a young teen at the time.

What I am trying to say is that their relationship is not that of a playmate, but as a caregiver.  This doesn’t change any of the concerns I shared, because I have known this since the beginning, I just didn’t clarify that with you, the reader.  So don’t think my sharing it now is a way of justifying acceptance of her moving in, it is not.  I just wanted you to have the full context.  My concerns remain.

I told Kayla that I hadn’t considered the idea of her moving in.  That definitely would show a greater commitment to us, so my concern is whether or not her commitment to us would match ours to her.  I can only imagine that it can be very difficult and it would be easy to develop “third wheel syndrome.”   It would take effort on all our parts to avoid this.

I went on to share that if we did that, I don’t see it working unless she became submissive to Mike.  She couldn’t be living her AND has a casual sexual relationship.   We would even need her to write a contract, similar to mine (not identical unless she wanted).  I asked her to go ahead and work on one so we could talk about it.  I half regret saying that as it seems like a self-fulfilling thing.   Her writing one creates momentum towards it actually happening, and that momentum may be hard to stop.   I was clear that I was not committed to any particular path forward yet.  I have a lot of concerns, but some of them could be answered in knowing what kind of structure she would willing to live under.

At that point I don’t know if I was feeling better, or worse, about where things are.  Still a bit confused and it still seemed like it is moving too fast – even though at this point we are just talking options and all agreed not to pursue anything right away.

A BREAKTHROUGH
I shared this with Mike.  He said that he has definitely heard me and my concerns and while he doesn’t share all of them, he completely understands why I feel as I do and that he would have a hard time demanding something of me that where I have so many doubts.  He said there are some things where he feels he knows me better than I do, so is able to request something of me that perhaps in the moment I might not like.  However, he can see that I have given this a lot of thought and it could be a disaster if he forced a solution.  Sounds good, but then he said, “But, ultimately, while Kayla can decide for herself, I am the decider for us and if I believe we can address your concerns, then so be it.”

When he said this, my first reaction in my mind way, “Oh, he just wants to play with me and keep me in suspense while also keeping the mantle of Dom.”  But, he didn’t say it in a playful tone.

Then it hit me!  This is the root of my hang-ups.  Kayla has a say, because she is deciding for herself, and I don’t.  This is about my need to not be “less than” Kayla.   Even though it was no one’s intentions for that, clearly, she has more power in this situation than I do, so in that respect, I may be subject to her will, assuming Mike agrees with her.

THAT’S MY ISSUE.   That is jealously and resentment at its’ finest!

I realized that for the most part I was able to talk calmly with Kayla about the possibilities, entertaining the pros and cons of each.  But my resentment raises its ugly head once it comes down to thinking about an actual decision that I don’t have final say in or if she uttered any words that inferred we were equal.  I was not feeling equal, I was feeling “less than” so in reaction, I wanted to be sure that whatever we did made it clear I was not her equal.

It became clear to me that I don’t just want to be an advocate for my feelings and hope that Mike sees it my way.  I need it to be my way.   How very un-sub of me!

I shared these thoughts with Mike, as I am required to.  Nothing says my thoughts have to be submissive, and I am required to share all my thoughts with Mike.  I just must maintain a respectful tone and ultimately agree with his decisions.   Also, while typically any difference of opinion I have on things are reserved for discussion during our Maintenance session, Mike already established an exception on the topic of Kayla, as he knew Kayla and I were talking daily and that he and I needed to openly discuss the issue on a daily basis.

IF IT PLEASES HIS LORDSHIP 
I went to Mike, took his hand, and kneeling before him I said, with an utmost respectful and overly formal tone, “Sir, with all your good grace, and in keeping with your spirit of wisdom and authority, and in knowing that I will act in revelation and fulfillment to your deepest desires and the best interests of our family, I humbly ask that you demand of me the task of being the decider on any changes in our relationship with Kayla.”  It may have helped that I stroked his cock while I said it.

In any event, he said, “Sure.”  Then he took on an English accent, waved his arm and proclaimed, “Let it be granted.”  Then said in a monotone, “but do it by the time the fall semester is over, if not sooner.”   We often use humor as a way of conveying how serious a matter is to us.  Seems backwards, but that’s how we roll!

Immediately, I felt a weight lifted.  Now I am energized to really work at a solution in a positive mindset.    And I don’t mean a solution that puts Kayla in our house or that does not put her in our house.  Just that I can now take time to talk with her and attempt to set all the right expectations for the both of us.  If we can’t come to a common understanding of how it should be, then we know it is simply not going to be.

So now a new doubt came to mind.  If you consider this a “negotiation,” which sounds so dull, but I guess reconciling our concerns is a type of negotiation, then is this negotiation fair?  Kayla is at a transition point in her life with moving out of her mom’s house, and the uncertainties that has may make living with us seem so much safer to her.  Will that persuade her to agree to something that perhaps she normally wouldn’t agree to?    That could be a set up for disappointment.   Ug, I think I over think this stuff.  I am always concerned about the decision we make that we think are for one reason, but later learn were influenced by other factors that we were oblivious to at the time.

I called Kayla and told her that when drafting a contract I want her to forget what I told her about my needs to not come across as a peer.  I told her if that made her comfortable, then that is what she needs to ask for.   I told her that the only way I am every completely going to let go of some of my concerns is if I feel confident that she is going into it not just committed, but truly on her own terms.  I said I am just as happy if she looks at what she writes and then decides, “Nope, I just can’t do that.”  We can then talk about whether the casual sex route is the way to go.  And if we don’t like the way that would be, then hey, we have had some amazing conversations, are closer than ever, and things continue a bit more like normal.

I FEEL BETTER! 
Still unclear where this will go, but better that we have three clear paths and the fortitude to take the one that is best for all.   Okay, I’ll admit, best for me. . . but, not in a selfish way.  Best for me means I am convinced that it is best for Kayla and Mike too. . . But ultimately, yes, best for me. . . there, I admit it, no qualifying it.

NEXT:  81. Expectations

79. Anxiety, Resentment, Jealously, Guilt

jealous

I am very anxious. I need to purge my emotions, so apologize in advance if this becomes a rant. I don’t think I am saying anything I haven’t shared with Mike and Kayla, but perhaps some new or more constructive ways to express my feelings will emerge.  This is a continuation of what I’ve shared in this post and this post, and in this post as well.  Sorry to have to share as the events unfold, but it sure is great therapy to write this.

This whole thing with Kayla has me all out of sorts and I can’t put my mind to just about anything for more than a few seconds without it drifting back to our situation with Kayla. I already talked about the risks that concern me, such as the increased need to practice safe sex, the implications of Kayla being someone who our son is close to, and my motherly instincts being more prevalent when I interact with Kayla and thus makes it harder for my mind to see her in a certain way. In addition, my concern that her neediness may cause problems.

What if we pursued something?
Putting everything aside that I previously stated, the other issues are that if we did pursue a sexual relationship, what exactly would that entail?   F*ck-buddies?  Would she partake as a submissive?  It sure seems to be leaning toward the latter…and submissive to just Mike, or perhaps to me as well?  What would that be like?   These are all questions I’ve posed and the three of us have discussed. And here is where we stand.

F-buddies?
I only use this term because Kayla had used it to describe her relationship with her best friend and her best friend’s boyfriend. Kayla said that she does not want that for the three of us, that we mean so much more to her and that it is so much deeper than just a physical interaction. She talked of saying she would end the sex with her best friend if we all pursued a relationship. She even used the term, “I love you guys.”   And of course, we love her, she knows that, and we said so.   While that could be a good thing, to me, it is part of my struggle.   The situation could set her up for disappointment or hurt later on. I can only imagine what being “the third wheel” could be like and beyond disappointment and hurt, it could build resentment on her part.   Bottom line, it could turn our great relationship into an unhealthy one for her. That has implications for all of us.

And, just what kind of relationship would this be?   I guess it could be called poly, which I’ve never really considered. I have no qualms with that term, but, is that what this would be? Kayla uses the term “relationship” so there seems to be a certain level to commitment she is willing to make, but are we?

Her as a submissive?
When I think about this I actually feel two feelings that rarely surface in me. I feel a level of resentment with a dash of jealousy.   I am not a jealous person by nature, it is very un-me! I don’t like it. Here’s what’s going through my mind.

Waves of Resentment.

  • I work hard on my submissiveness, she may not take it as seriously as I do. She may not be committed to it as I am. She may look at it as simply a game.   I resent all of that.
  • What rules would she have? Same as me? Different? If different, are they less/more restrictive than mine? If she can do something without punishment but I can’t, well, that’s just messed up. Who does she think she is? I resent that.
  • Would she also be accountable to me? I like that, but we would have figure out how that works as ultimately I do want Mike to be the ultimate authority figure and I want to be fair with Kayla. However, I like the idea that there is something to remind Kayla that despite her participation, she is not my peer. If she thinks of me as a peer, I resent that!
  • Her level of commitment could never be consistent just due to lifestyle. She lives with her mom and goes to school. What, she comes over now and then when she chooses?   It makes it seem more like a game for her and not a lifestyle. Again, I take my commitment seriously and she will just be unable to do the same, even if she wanted to. I resent that!

Add in some Guilt.
Then I begin feeling guilty. Why wasn’t my first response to Kayla not one of compassion but instead a series of assessments as to her “fitness” to be with us?  See, the resentment is already manifesting itself in unhealthy ways as it poisons my empathy and compassion.

I shared just about everything I’ve written here with her, and of course, it did make her sad and she cried.  Not a full on cry, but teary eyed and emotional.  I know it wasn’t just in what I said, but in the manner in which I said it.  I know my tone was somewhat biting.  I apologized for my tone and tried to explain that it is not about a deficiency in her, it is about the realities of where she is at in life compared to ours and that despite our mutual love and respect, it just may be incompatible to the type of relationship we are considering.

All of my concerns are just as much about my own baggage and needs as it is about hers.   Ug, that sounded a bit like, “it’s not you, it’s me.”   But I want her to know I don’t see her as unworthy.

Dash of Insecurity?
I also have concerns about priorities. Will Kayla be a high enough priority for Mike and I that we do right by her, and will we be a high enough priority that she does right by us?  In other words, do we end up just considering each other as “available options” or is the relationship to be more meaningful than that. Not that whatever we have can’t be casual if that is what we decide, or that it can’t be more meaningful if that is what we decide, but each route has implications.

We all are works in progress to some degree, but Kayla, given her age and background is just more so.  I also am aware that whatever issues a person has they bring to any relationship. That’s a given and by itself not necessarily a problem.  But it can become one if that person is not willing to work on their own issues or allow help from their partners.   So far Kayla has impressed me with her own self-awareness of her needs, her strengths, and her weaknesses.  Including her willingness to seek advice and guidance and be open to constructive feedback.  That’s a plus, but apparently not enough to eliminate my concerns.

While I have been very impressed with Kayla’s reaction and responses, it has not lessened my anxiety about all these things. Yes, she has some needs, but don’t we all. She’s loving, caring, and self-aware, has some abandonment type issues with her parents but recognizes that and does not shy away from it. I can see that this could be fun and could be meaningful. But, my life is so good right now, and has already moved pretty fast in just the last 18 months. None of the positives I see with Kayla are enough to reduce my anxiety, resentment, and jealously, nor reduce my guilt for feeling anxious, resentment, and jealous.  And then we have the concerns I first expressed in my other posts.  Concerns about complicating my life and the fact Kayla is someone special to my son.

All these bad feelings.
 
Sum it all up and another significant roadblock is whether or not we could ever have an arrangement where I don’t feel these negative feelings.  I don’t want to feel these things but that doesn’t change the fact that right now I do.  I know these feeling would end up manifesting themselves in various unhealthy ways. Unhealthy for me, my relationship with Mike, and for Kayla.   If I can’t get past these feelings, we just can’t move forward.

Mike and Kayla both seem to be outpacing me on this issue. While they are not dismissive of my concerns, they feel more carefree about just diving in, living life, and what happens will happen. I have reiterated with Mike that I stand by my commitments to him and will abide by anything he decides.

Where we are today
Mike said we should having a “cooling off” period so we all can reflect and continue to discuss our feelings.  That makes me happy and does reduce my anxiety a bit.  Mike set a date of November 15, where he said no decisions should be made before then. We’ll reassess on that date and he may decide we continue to wait or not, assuming Kayla is aboard with what he decides – which apparently she is.

One question I posed to Kayla that she has not been able to fully articulate is how she sees this dynamic working in her mind. What does she see as the ideal situation for her?   She has shared bits and pieces but hasn’t thought it through enough, so I am hopeful some additional time will allow her to understand and share her own needs and expectations better.   I hope that for myself as well.

Next:  80.  Breakthrough.  What a Week!