Tag Archives: triad

344. Kayla Interview Part III

344

I know I’ve spent a lot of time posting about my “Interview with Kayla.”  Don’t you know that I am slightly fond of her?   Hee-hee.   Hopefully, you find that hearing from her is interesting and entertaining.    If you didn’t read the other parts, here ya go — Part I.    Part II.

PART III
Jen:  I had someone email me asking about finances.  They were in a long term committed poly relationship and found the finances to be a point of contention.

Kayla: I think whether it’s a traditional or non-traditional relationship, money can be a source of friction.   I think it is less about the type of relationship and more about any differences in how each person views money.  You probably understand the psychology better than I do.

Jen:   Yes, there is something universal about household finances as a potential point of conflict for any relationship.   Economic power is just one more area a couple in a power-exchange dynamic has to address.  Sometimes the submissive may be willing to submit in many ways except economically.   This can cause conflict if the Dom expects such submission.  No different than if talking sex or household rules of any kind.

There’s nothing wrong with a power-exchange that does not include an exchange of economic power.  There is no right way or wrong way for a submissive or a Dom to think about this.   The key is,  no relationship can ignore this topic and like EVERY aspect of their relationship, they have to find a solution that works for everyone involved.  You can assume a submissive is likely to submit financially, but they may not for many valid reasons.  No different than say a submissive who does not want to be sexually shared or that just doesn’t do windows.  Haha.  They just have to find a Dom that accepts it.  But this post isn’t about financial advice for kinksters, it’s about you.  So explain how your finances work.

Kayla: I think you posted about this (I did).   When I was going to school I paid you rent.  My dad was still giving me money for living expenses and I had a part-time job for a bit.  I would give all my money to Mike and he would give me an allowance.  He monitored my purchases and I had to get permission for most expenditures.  I didn’t have many expenses since you all took care of groceries, utilities, and stuff like that and my dad took care of school expenses.

When I started working a “career” job after finishing school, I didn’t hesitate to give all my money to Mike.  Direct deposit into his account.   We didn’t even discuss it ahead of time.   I just did it as it was natural to me and I expected it of myself, as much as Mike expected it of me.  The fact I was making significantly more money didn’t change this for me.

Jen:  Did he expect it?  What would you say to those that think he, or we, are taking advantage of you? 

Kayla:  If they are going to point to the money as the area of concern, and not all the other submissive things I do or that I am part of a relationship with a married couple, then to me that’s a positive.  At least they accept those other parts and if they want to focus on the finances, so be it.  To me, either I am being taken advantage of in every aspect of our relationship or I am not.  I know I am not.  What others think doesn’t bother me.  You all bought me a car (Post 283. We are three) with what I thought was rent money I was giving to you.  I have no reason not to trust you all. 

Jen:  I understand it, but what would you say to those that don’t?

Kayla:  I think they say that because they can’t understand how I could be secure in this relationship, emotionally or financially.  They assume my relationship with you all is tenuous and I should maintain an exit plan, including a financial one.  That’s b.s. to me.  I bet I am saving more money than my peers.  

Jen:  You have money in your own name?

Kayla:  Yes, Mike insisted.  But he does see my statement and I can not spend it – period.  But to be clear, I would have accepted having nothing in my name.  I was even willing to have the car in his name.  I was willing to have no assets to my name.  Mike was the one who insisted on an arrangement where I have money of my own.

Mike said that I deserved a semblance of financial security that you have as his legal wife.  While legally it can never be the same, he felt it important that I had a safety net.  I can’t get equity in the home, but I could build equity some other way.  His explanation made me feel better because honestly, I wanted to 100% submit financially – give everything to him.   Now, I cherish what I do have in my name because it represents a financial equity in this household and in our marriage, legal or not.

Jen:  Explain how the arrangement works.

Kayla:  All our money goes into our household “Bills” account that Mike controls.  He takes care of the mortgage, utilities, and any recurring monthly expenses.   There’s typically a set amount that he then transfers to our “Daily” account.  All three of us are on the Daily account and use it for groceries, gas, clothing, and things like that.   (I covered the basics of this is in Post 181.  Domestic Financial Discipline).   The two of us have rules on what we can buy without permission, like groceries and gas.  This account is like our allowance.  Mike rarely makes purchases from that account since we are responsible for day-to-day household needs.   We are free to spend that account down to zero if need be as it is the amount Mike has allocated for all those daily type household expenses.

And when he puts money in the Daily, he also puts some in our individual savings accounts and the family savings account.  That can be used for gifts for birthdays and Christmas and to build up for that rainy day.   So savings is already taken out as if it were its own expense.  Mike is so good with money.  I have no clue how to spend wisely or save anything.  Well, I do now.

I already have a nice savings balance, plus Mike was adamant I contribute a large amount to my employer’s 401(k).  Believe me, financially speaking I am way better off than most of my peers.  While it sounds ominous that my paycheck goes to Mike, I not only enjoy this arrangement, I am benefiting from it.  Mike also provides me a level of financial discipline I could not provide on my own. 

Jen:  Speaking of discipline, let’s talk DD, more precisely, how your journey into submission has evolved.   What’s your narrative to describe your journey?

Kayla:  The summary of it is, I was insecure, I was self-destructive and headed down a path of even greater destruction, I was scared, I was lost.  I was like a ship that on the outside seemed seaworthy but I had no rudder.  Then you all let me in.  From the moment you shared your dynamic with me I was intrigued.  Make that hooked(Post 77.  Heart to Heart with Kayla).  I remember immediately thinking, “I want Mr. H to treat me that way.”  I think I became very flirty in hopes of charming you.  I guess it worked!

Jen:  Ya’ think?   Speaking of me, at first, we dabbled with having me as a disciplinarian along with Mike.  Talk about that.

Kayla:  I liked the idea of being submissive and accountable to both of you.  In some ways I still do, but not to the degree I needed it at first.  I can’t explain it, but I think part of it was that I wanted to be accepted by both of you and a part of both of you.  I didn’t want just a one-way relationship that was only me and Mike while the two of you had your own relationship.  I wanted a three-way relationship and at the time I thought being submissive to you was one way to have that.   Over time I realized I could have a relationship with you that didn’t include being your submissive, and anyway, it was interfering with your submissive mindset, so we both sort of moved on from that.

Jen:  “Sort of?”  So would you prefer that I discipline you?

Kayla:  Sometimes.  But I know when I think through the implications, while I like the idea of it, I wouldn’t like the reality of it.  I love where things are between us and wouldn’t want to change it.  But, I wouldn’t mind a spanking from you now and then, even if just play.

Jen:  Noted.  We can make that happen.  How would you describe our relationship and your thoughts about the age difference?

Kayla:  You are my wife.  That’s how I describe it.  I love you.  Age exists but doesn’t change those feelings.  I figure there is probably some element of psychology at work regarding my relationship with my mom – or lack of.   When I was 12-15ish I thought of you as a motherly figure.  No escaping that.  I love the warmth of your nurturing soul, and I love to be the object of that nurturing.   And at one time that nurturing may have had more of a mother-daughter vibe, but that vibe completely changed when I became a part of the family.

Jen:  Thank you, and yes, it did.  You are confident and vibrant.  You are “adulting” very well.   You don’t need mothering.   But, you do like to be little?  What do you think that is about? (Post 279. And baby makes three)

Kayla:  We’ve talked about this a lot and I still can’t fully explain it.  I think the really young age play — infant level play — was part of “resetting” my childhood from the beginning.   I needed to start from that beginning.  Sort of role-playing it out where I got everything I needed psychologically.   And then eventually I “aged up” in that play from infant to toddler to young child.

Jen:  And where are you today in that play?

Kayla:  I don’t know any other littles, but from what I’ve read I am probably more in line with the more traditional little-play.  I still have that need to be little now and then.   It’s fun role play, but I get deeply into it, beyond a role.  I become little in my mind.  I’d say my little persona ranges from age 4 to 7 but occasionally may dip into age 2 or 3 regarding breastfeeding or diaper play.

Jen:  I love that breastfeeding and diaper play rolls off your tongue as if you were talking about a favorite dessert or dress.

Kayla:  What?  You mean they aren’t normal things to talk about?   If your readers could only hear some of our conversations!  Besides, those are my favorite desserts and dress. (laughing). 

Jen:  What about your need for discipline.  Do you think about why you need this lifestyle?

Kayla:  Not really.  I just accept it.  It fulfills me.  It just feels right.  It’s like if you asked a vanilla hetero woman what she thinks about why she needs her vanilla hetero lifestyle.  You just are what you are and should just be what you are.  Go with it if it fulfills you and doesn’t harm others.

Jen:  You’re right.  I think I project my feelings on this.  Coming from 20+ years of being that vanilla hetero wife, I guess it’s easier for me to think about why I changed.  I lived the other side for so long and thus it may be more natural to occasionally reflect.  But you never see a friend or co-worker or woman in the store or ever have thoughts of, “I wish I could do that.  I wish I could be free?”

Kayla:  Never.  I cherish my role in our marriage and love being submissive.  I am free!  Free to explore something that means everything to me.  Free to explore my submission and do so in a healthy and nurturing environment.  I wouldn’t want any other life or lifestyle.

Jen:  Your submission is deeper than mine, in terms of what you do and what fulfills you.  In kink terms, it is more Master/slave than simply Dominant/submissive.

Kayla:  Like you, I had to find my limits, that level of submission that fulfilled me and that Mike was comfortable with giving.  He’s such a perfect Dom in helping both of us find our individual limits and not dictating them.  I do love a more slave oriented dynamic than a submissive one.   It’s hard to explain.  I need Mike to know I am his in any and every way he wants.  It isn’t enough for him to feel it is true, I want him to demonstrate it is true.   No different than you.  It’s just a matter of degree.  Mike is awesome at recognizing the different degrees to set things for you compared to me.

Jen:  I agree, but I always like to note on my blog that while Mike is the perfect Dom, he’s our perfect Dom.  He’s perfect because he fulfills what we both need and want.  Someone else with different needs and wants may find him inadequate.  I like to tell my readers that the perfect Dom is the one that is perfect for you.  Fortunately, Mike is perfect for both of us.

Kayla:  Oh he sure is, and that makes it all the more fulfilling to serve him.  He deserves it.  He deserves you, and he deserves me, every ounce and fiber of me.  While I may have freely given myself to him, he has shown me that he deserves all of me.  It’s a wonderful feeling.

Jen:  Yes, it is.   When you first joined our family, I made several posts about adjustments I had to make, emotionally, dealing with feelings related to jealously.  Have you ever been jealous of me?

Kayla:  I don’t think so.  I love Mike.  But I don’t feel I need him all to myself.  Maybe I was fortunate that early on I was too insecure to consider jealousy.   That seems counter-intuitive as jealousy is rooted in insecurity.  But I felt so deeply insecure that I felt like I didn’t even deserve the feeling of jealousy.   Does that make sense? (yes!) 

He was your husband and I so much wanted to be a part of the two of you, that I didn’t give my mind the chance to think anything negative.  I never once felt in competition with you.  I didn’t feel I was even entitled to feel like I was competing.

By the time I knew my position in the family was cemented, there simply wasn’t a need for any negative feelings.  If such feelings were bubbling around somewhere in my mind, I was in a place where they didn’t matter and I could reconcile them.

And what is there to be jealous of?  What would I be competing for?   Not legally being his wife?   When I think that through I feel terrible, not jealous.  If I were his wife, you would not be.  I would never take that from you, or from him, or the kids.  Their parents are married and in love.   I could never want something that would require others to experience so much pain and anguish.  Besides, I have everything I need from him and from you.  I don’t feel anything is lacking.  Like you, I love anything that brings joy to Mike, and there isn’t anyone that brings him more joy than you.   

 Jen:  Thank you, and know that you bring him a lot of joy as well.  He loves you, and I love you, and we both love that the other loves you.  Lots of love to go around.  As I stated before, Love is not Pie.  It is not to be divided and rationed.  It is infinite and to be shared.

You do a lot for Mike.  Things I don’t even do.  You clean his car every day, you run to put towels in the dryer when he showers so you can bring him warm towels when he is done.  The two of you have a lot of rituals as well and he communicates a lot to you in simple gestures, like your own form of sign language.  Mike is also a lot more strict with you.  You probably get 2-3 times the spankings I do.  And your discipline mixes in a lot of sex.  Do you ever look at my dynamic with Mike and wish your submission was less deep?

Kayla:  The question is, do you ever look at mine and wish yours was deeper?

Jen:  No, that’s not the question.  (I said in a mock stern voice). But I think I understand that as an answer.  In other words, your submission is where you and Mike want it to be and that’s that.  I totally get that.  And for the record, I love watching the two of you interact.  It always brings me joy to witness your submission to him.

Changing gears. You are changing your last name to match ours.  This is an amazing commitment on your part and we are overwhelmed by your decision.  It never dawned on us to even consider such a thing.  It’s so special.  I don’t have the right words to express just how special a gift that is to us.  No question for you.  I just needed to state that for my readers.   On second thought, I do have a question.  What gave you that idea and why did you ask both of us for permission and not just Mike?

Kayla:  Thank you.  And it isn’t my gift to you, but your gift to me.  I was very nervous when I asked you all.  I thought one or both of you might get upset and think I was taking things too far.  But I kept telling myself that you all have been so supportive and transparent with our relationship – the ceremony, the tattoos.   As for how it came to me, it was very sudden, like this lightning bolt.   I friend of mine is friends with a gay male couple who were married.  She was telling me that when her friends married, they created a new last name that was a mixture of their two names.  (here’s a name-mixing tool I found that can help you with ideas) 

In an instant it hit me.  I need to change my name.  And it was more than just needing it, I had to do it.  I felt bad that I hadn’t thought of it before.  Like I was lacking in trust in our relationship and every day I kept my last name was another day of not demonstrating my full trust.   I think that’s why I got nervous.  I couldn’t imagine how I’d feel if you said no.  I thought you all would be happy, but no one can be 100% sure about that.  And I was mostly worried about your reaction, Jen.  

You’ve always been so supportive and inclusive of me – as part of your family when I was a child, and as part of your marriage as an adult.  But I still worried you might think I was going too far, that changing my name was a way to put myself closer to your level.  It was a name you had taken, and that maybe you would think I was trying to minimize you taking his name.  I felt it was important that I ask both of you and not just Mike.   As much as I know Mike is the ultimate decider of all things in our family,  I wanted your immediate reaction.  I would feel guilty if I thought you were just going along with it because Mike agreed.  I didn’t want you to just go along with it.  I wanted you to honor it, to invite it, to welcome it.  And you did. 

Jen:  Yes, we both did.  Thank you for considering my feelings like that.  It is a very big decision, but one I did not hesitate to support.  The moment you asked I was like, “Oh my god, I love it. Why didn’t we think of this?  It’s perfect.”  You were there.  I got reprimanded by Mike for not letting him speak first.   Again, it’s a wonderful gift to give us and demonstrates your commitment to the three of us as a unified triad.   So where do you see yourself in five or ten years?  What about kids?

Kayla:  I see myself a part of this family.  We are three!  In my mind, it is “until death do us part.”  I know I am still young and that the road in life has a way of throwing unexpected curves or present divergent paths.  If that happens, we deal with them at that time.  But I am probably not much different than anyone who gets married.  They don’t think about it as, “Well, what will I do when this is over?”    The thoughts are, “What will WE be like in the future?”  

I think we will be a lot like we are today.  Our dynamic may evolve, but the three of us will remain three.   And kids?  Sure, I see them at some point.  There’s always artificial insemination or good old fashion natural insemination. (laughing).   So when the time comes there will be decisions we all will have to make and I do consider it a three-way decision since it impacts all of us.

Jen:  For the readers, I think I’ve written before, Mike has been snipped, as coincidentally has John, TJ, and Matt.  The only man in our COT who isn’t sterile is Jaime (condoms and/or birth control!).  And we’ve told Kayla that we are supportive of her having a child at some point.  We don’t feel now is a good time, nor does she, but we see it happening at some point.

So Kayla, speaking of semen… you did sort of mention semen…. let’s end this with questions about sex.   What do you think about your sex life?

AND WITH THAT

I think I will end this post and will most definitely wrap up this Q&A with Kayla on the next post.   I hope you all enjoy hearing from her and understanding more about her.  I am so proud of her and so happy to be a part of her life and her a part of mine.   Maybe I got too excited and am oversharing.  But I tend to be an over-sharer. It’s my brand for this blog and you wouldn’t want me to get off-brand would you?   So you’ll just have to accept it and skim through it or skip it if it is just too much blah-blah-blah for you.

Next Post: 345. Kayla Part IV – Stories of first times

318. Master Kayla. She no longer submits?

318

A family update

KAYLA IS A MASTER 
Kayla is a cunning linguist, a master of many tounges, and a master debater.  Yes, she has mastered many things.  And now it’s official!

We attended Kayla’s Commencement Ceremony regarding her M.B.A.  She is done with her formal education and is preparing to enter her adult working life.  But not quite yet!

When she first moved in with us over two years ago we felt that she might be with us up until she graduated.  We initially looked at our relationship with her as being a chapter in her life that she would want to end and graduating seemed like a good ending point.

Of course, we all ended up madly in love.  She totally meshed with our entire household vibe as well as my marriage beyond what we could have envisioned.  About a year ago we talked about our future together.  She made it clear to us that her desire was to stay a part of us with no arbitrary end date such as graduation, a birthday, or whatever.   She feels like a permanent part of us.  And we agreed 100%.   We really are three.   That led to our ceremony complete with a ring for Kayla.   We are in a long term committed relationship.   Period.

However, our situation requires meaningful, honest, and realistic discussions about what we want, both in the near term and in the long term.  We don’t speak of our relationship as “forever” as that seems unrealistic and unnecessary.  Mike is going to be 51 soon, and I’ll be 50.  And it’s not that age by itself matters, it is that life experiences matter and Kayla (24 in case you forgot) deserves experiences outside of what we can offer her.

Kayla admits at some point she may want to explore those experiences, but at the moment she can’t imagine that time.  She agrees it is probably “out there somewhere” but at the moment it is nowhere in sight.  She hates talking about the possibility of it and that’s the end of the conversation.

KAYLA THE MASTER STILL SUBMITS
Oh, and as for the tease in my title.   Kayla is as submissive today as ever.  She is Mike’s submissive in ways that go further than my submission.  It’s hard to quantify, but I would score our potpourri dynamic like this:

  • Me and Mike:      44% DD, 40% D/s, 10% M/s, and 6% BDSM,
  • Kayla and Mike: 10% DD, 35% D/s, 35% M/s, and 20% BDSM.

Honestly, I probably should score my DD a bit lower, but I find comfort in scoring it the way I did.  I think I like to believe it is still mostly rooted in Domestic Discipline, even though there is definitely a bigger Dominant/submissive and Master/slave element than ever before.  Hey, I can self-identify however I want, so leave me alone!  Hee-hee.

My point is Kayla is the more submissive one.  I struggle with the right term. The more “subjugated” one?  No, that doesn’t fit.  That has a connotation of “conquest” which clearly doesn’t apply.  Mike did not conquer either one of us   I believe we each forged a dynamic with Mike that has liberated us.  Liberated from the thoughts and behaviors that truly enslaved us and truly subjugated us.  Kind of reminds me of one of my fav posts, Post 30.  I found my Thrill.

Consider that paragraph a mini-rant!  Ha!  I haven’t ranted about submission in quite some time.  There was the October political rant, but it’s probably been more than a year since I last ranted about my journey.  Maybe next post?  I know some of you are like, “Jen, how about making it yet another year before your next rant?  Well, too bad.  It’s my blog and I’ll rant if I want to.

GRADUATION GIFT
I think somewhere in here I shared that when Kayla first moved in with us she was paying us rent.  While she worked an on-again/off-again part-time job, her dad sent her a check each month to help her out so she could focus on school without having to work much.  He committed to doing that until she finished her MBA program.  Also, both her parents committed to helping her pay for school.  Thankfully they didn’t end those commitments when she moved in with us.

We combining our finances at her request, I think about a year ago.  It was part of fully committing to us being three.   I posted about how we handle our finances in Post 181.  Domestic Financial Discipline.  That was prior to combining Kayla’s finances.  It basically still works the same way in that any money she received went into the “Bills” account and Mike determined how much would go into our “Day-to-Day” that she and I shared.  (It’s called Day-to-day, but it’s not a daily allowance.  You’ll have to read Post 181 for how it works).

Money can often be a point of contention, but it never has with us.  Kayla liked the arrangement as it made her feel more of us being three.  She still had money to spend but was equally accountable in making sure we stayed within our jointly allocated amount.  If exceptions were needed, whether she needed it or I did, we would talk to Mike and he would decide.    

What Kayla didn’t know (but I did), was that any amount she put in was actually not changing what Mike was putting into our Day to Day account.  Instead, he was putting it into a savings account he set up.   We really didn’t need the extra income and when she did have a few exceptional expenses (new car tires), unbeknownst to her, Mike just covered them with our money.  All along Mike planned to use all the money she contributed to our household as a graduation gift to her. 

She has given us money for 29 months.  And Mike threw in a little extra to make it a nice round number.  Let’s just say her graduation gift from us is allowing her to replace her old and dying car with a new one with a little to spare!  And as that gift really didn’t cost us anything, as we looked at it as the money we didn’t need, on top of that we told her we would pay for a trip for her and a friend to go anywhere in the U.S.   Kayla is planning a trip to NY City for her and Chelsea.

KAYLA’S KINK
Kayla’s age play (Post 279) has evolved over the last 8-9 months.  She has “aged-up” if that is the right term.  That is, she’s gone from an almost infant like play to more toddler play.  It’s not something she gets to do very often because of J in the house, and we find her some play time whenever we can.  A few times we have had visits from Nurse Ann to partake in both Mike and Kayla’s nursing desires.  Other than that, it’s been pretty much kink as usual.  She is much more into being restrained (tied up, shackled, etc) and lives for sex with two men at once (sometimes three).   

She has tremendous energy and is totally committed to Mike, always looking to serve his every need.  Wait,  he’s a man, there is no “every” need.  There’s just the “one” need.  As they say, every woman wants one man to fulfill her every need, and every man wants every woman to fulfill his one need.   And in our relationship, we call that an equitable arrangement!   

I am kidding.       Just a little.       Not much really.      

WHAT’S NEXT
Kayla has a job offer and they gave her the option of starting now or waiting until August.  At our encouragement, she opted for the August start date.   So she has two-and-a-half months to be completely free to do whatever, whenever.  Well, not whatever, per Mike’s moratorium, but who knows, Mike may give her a moratorium waiver as another gift.  Sounds funny so I’ll just have to say it, “Hey mom, for my graduation Mike’s letting me suck some stranger’s cock.”    Poor taste?

As for finances, she still plans on pooling her money with us, with two exceptions.  One, she will have a savings account that she is to put a set amount into once she starts working that is her’s long term but no using it without Mike’s permission.   And two, while the rest goes into our collective pot, there will be a nice increase in our Day-to-Day allowance.

And speaking of graduations, J will be graduating high school!  About two more weeks of school left.  I’ll share on my next post what we think his future holds.  Graduating high school comes with a lot of emotion.  It’s equal parts exciting, amazing, scary, anxiety-filled, and pit-in-your-stomach terrifying.  And that’s just how I feel about it!   As for him, he’s like, “No biggie, I got this.”   We shall see.

Next: 319. Empty Nest?

293. Love is not Pie

293

2+1 DOES NOT EQUAL 3?
Kayla’s submission continues to evolve based on her needs and desires, not mine.  That is how it should be.  Her rules and rituals have a greater mix of M/s than do mine.  And out of love and concern, there have been times I have asked questions and provided my own insights and thoughts.        

Mike not only welcomed this but also solicited my advice, as did Kayla.  I was encouraged to speak up and speak often.   After all, we all had a lot to learn.  It’s one thing for me and Mike to experiment and learn within the backdrop of a 25+ year marriage.  It’s another when you are talking about a brand new relationship with someone over 25 years younger than you.   So yeah, any additional insights were valued by everyone.   But people grow and relationships evolve.  

I was slow in fully recognizing the growth and evolution.  It should have been more apparent to me, especially after our Relationship Bonding Ceremony, a ceremony designed to publicly recognize and acknowledge that growth and evolution.  (See my P.S. below re that Ceremony).   And by slow, consider that it was a year ago when I shared a somewhat similar situation.  You think I’d have figured it out sooner.  (Post 201. Happy New (Severe Spanking) Year).

With what I shared on my prior post, it is finally very clear to me — my feedback is no longer needed, nor appropriate, at least in the manner in which I previously provided it. 

It’s about understanding that our relationship is NOT three separate relationships (Mike/me, Mike/Kayla, Kayla/me).  It is ONE relationship with three people.   In other words, it isn’t that 2 + 1 = 3.  It is that 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.   In math, it’s the same, but in relationships, the difference is night and day.

ON TO THE PUNISHMENT
Okay, so what was the punishment she received that had me concerned?

Mike took a lot of vacation time in December as he needed to use it up or lose it.   A few weeks ago while J was at school, Kayla asked Mike for permission to go to the bathroom, as is customary.  Instead of the typical, “You may go,” Mike, he told her, “Go get a diaper, put it on, and return here.”   This is not something he had ever previously commanded. 

Kayla responded, “But Sir…”

Mike cut her off, told her to bend over, and he spanked her with his hand about ten times in quick succession.

“Do I need to repeat myself?”

“No Sir,” and she did as she was told and returned wearing the diaper.

“Now, go. Right here, right now.  Go,” Mike ordered.

“Sir, I need…”

Mike again cut her off.  “Pull down that diaper and bend over.”  He spanked her again by hand, at least thirty times.    He then reminded her that if she has important information to share, she needs to know how to properly share it.

There are no “buts” when it comes to responding to Mike.  We never respond with a “but.”  For me, I always try to remember to replace “and” with “but.”   Instead of, “No Sir, but…”  It is, “Yes Sir, and. . . ”  Sometimes it’s hard to remember this when he asks something unexpected, and his request clearly caught Kayla (and me) off guard.

This time Kayla said, “Sir, I have something I would like to tell you that you might find important to your demand that I go in my diaper.”

Simply put, she had to poop, not just pee.  Mike’s response was, “That changes nothing. Let me know when you are done.”   She complied.  And even stranger for both Kayla and me was that Mike took care of cleaning her.  Diaper play, at least when it comes to a bowel movement, has almost exclusively been limited to our Immersions,  and even then, Mike didn’t partake in any cleanup.

I was puzzled but didn’t say anything at the time, but as I shared in my prior post, I used our Maintenance to question it.  

LOVE IS NOT PIE
I have always felt that love is not pie.  It is not to be divided and rationed.  It is infinite and to be shared. 

While labels are always tricky, they do help serve as a sort of compass, to at least give us general direction.  And the needle of our relationship is now pointing a bit less toward polyamory, and a bit more towards polygamy.   Obviously not in any legal way – but in a way that more accurately describes our relationship.  

I am happy about the evolution of our relationship.  I am sure it will continue to grow, nurtured by love and respect.  Oh, and submission to Mike!   

P.S.  I just realized!  I never really posted about the party we had in mid-October.  We invited friends and family over for a party that we promoted and celebrated as a recognition of our relationship with Kayla.  It was our way of saying we are not doing anything to try to hide what she means to us.  Our family knows.  Mike’s co-workers know.  Our friends know.  We memorialized it with the tattoos I shared on that post.
It was a lot of fun and felt very rewarding.  While it meant a lot to me and Mike, it meant even more to Kayla.

Next: Post 294. How to have fulfilling “joyless” sex 

292. Kayla’s Triad Thursday Declaration

292

I’ve promised a return to sharing more kink.  Forget family time!  It’s time to appeal to more prurient interests.   Yeah, be honest, that is why you read a blog like this! 

Well, I guess I lied.  You’ll have to wait for one more post.  This one will be the set up for the sizzling and salacious, the depraved and degenerate, the indecent and impure, the. . . well, you get the picture.  It sets the stage for the “fun” stuff, in this case, a punishment.   Yeah, I am flipping the Jenny script and sharing the aftermath of a punishment, then I’ll share the details of the punishment on the next post.    

This isn’t even about a punishment I received, it is Kayla’s.  What?  “In three months of no posting you didn’t receive a single noteworthy spanking?”    Yep.  I mean, not that I wasn’t spanked, but nothing noteworthy.  Anything I share of the last two or three months would be indistinguishable from other posts about punishments.  I can’t motivate myself to write about something that is so derivative of prior posts.  So instead, I will write about Kayla.  What makes it noteworthy is that it marks an evolution in our relationship.   

CH-CH-CH-CHANGES
Like most relationship changes, they come slowly and as part of a change in someone. 
The “initiator” recognizes a need for change before the other person does.  The initiator often stays silent for some time as they first try to understand and reconcile what that change means for themselves.   Even once they do, they sometimes are unsure how to articulate exactly what this change is.  Then there is some trigger, a tipping point, and they verbalize this change.  

In this case, the tipping point involved a punishment Mike gave Kayla.  I’ll share the details in the next post, but basically, it surprised me.  Not in its severity – it was not severe. It was just very different. 

I’ve learned to trust Mike and not question or worry about Kayla in regards to her discipline.  In fact, it was exactly a year ago that I learned that lesson well re Post 201. Happy New (Severe Spanking) Year.  That lesson was about learning to approach my concerns from a point of curiosity and of seeking clarity.   This was especially important when it came to issues dealing with Kayla and my concern that Mike remain on point with providing the discipline she wants and needs.  

TRIAD THURSDAY – KAYLA’S DECLARATION
We’ve started calling our Thursday Maintenance sessions “Triad Thursday” since, about eight months ago, we turned this into a family meeting of sorts with me, Mike, and Kayla all coming together for Maintenance.   As Kayla’s punishment in question happened on a Thursday, I felt it was a great opportunity to find clarity and resolve my concerns. 

Kayla’s reaction to my inquiry surprised me.   She said something like, 

“Jen, this is a great example of something that’s been bothering me but I haven’t been able to put my finger on.  I know you love me and are only looking out for me, but that’s the thing, I don’t need you to be looking out for me that way.   At least, not when it comes to the things Sir says or does to me.  Even though your questions are respectful, it still hurts me to have you question his disciplining of me.   If you want to know how I feel about a punishment I received, you can ask me.  Don’t bring it to a Maintenance.  This is not a Maintenance issue.”

Followed by. . . 

 “I want to be treated more like a wife to both of you than a “lesser third in a TriadI don’t want you as a mother, I want you as a friend, a partner, a confidant, a lover.”

Wow.   Yep. Those were her words.  She said it didn’t come out exactly how she intended, but, that yeah, the essence of it is all in there.  It’s hard to hear someone say that.  Your mind just hears, “I don’t want you.”  Thus, my defenses were triggered, but fortunately, my defensiveness didn’t last long.  I credit my years of training as a counselor and my generous and empathetic heart.  Yep, it had absolutely nothing to do with the stern look and word my initial response got from Mike. 

Brushing aside my bruised ego, what quickly ensued was a meaningful dialogue between the three of us.  I’ll spare the blow-by-blow, but it was positive, constructive, and loving.  The short version is this — Our relationship with Kayla is two years old, and Kayla is now 24.   While she was always mature beyond her years, she has grown a lot in those two years.  And ” a lot” is an understatement.   Her needs have changed.  Not as it relates to her submission, but as it relates to me.   

I had given up on being a disciplinarian to Kayla some time ago.  Part due to my own needs as a submissive and part due to her no longer desiring it.   And when she first moved in with us I was very much a “helicopter girlfriend” as I was very concerned for her well being.   And while I didn’t do this nearly as much, I still hovered over her needs in a motherly sort of way.   She was declaring her independence from my motherly type concerns for her.   Good for her!   And because I have been prone to sarcasm, I’ll state that there was no sarcasm in that statement.  Only pride, joy and love.  

SECOND WIFE?
We have been using the term “second wife” for a while in describing Mike’s relationship with Kayla.  Mostly in jest, but there is a tinge of seriousness to it, as there often is in humor.  But we had never once used that word to describe her relationship with me.   But she was right.  What has been evolving, and what her declaration just formalized, is that indeed, our relationship has crossed over to be more of that of “spousal peers.”   That was the term I came up with and she said, “Yeah, that’s it, that’s what I am trying to articulate.”     

It isn’t that she didn’t appreciate how she was treated before — she loved how we have treated her and credits it with her tremendous growth as a person.  It is simply that her needs have changed, and she is looking to be treated in a way that is consistent with her current needs.     

She is no longer that young woman who wants or needs my protection.  She is simply that young woman who wants and needs my love.  I should not go to Mike when I have a concern about Kayla that I have not yet shared with Kayla.  That is no different than how Kayla has treated me since the beginning.

While “wife” has legal connotations, it also has a lot of emotional ones.  And Kayla expressed she wanted the mantle of that title, not just between her and Mike, but between me and her. . . albeit an informal, non-legally binding title.   And for her it isn’t about any of the legal rights bestowed on that title. She is not interested in any of that.  She is interested in the standing it gives her in our family dynamic regarding how she is treated by me and by Mike.  It was easy to grant her this and both Mike and I committed to treating her this way from now one, whole-heartedly.   

There were no ill feelings from our conversation.  I truly lost my defensive feelings very quickly.  In addition, Mike reminded me how important it was for me to be so involved in her discipline and be overly sensitive to her needs in the early days of the relationship.  Even if I wasn’t administering discipline, I was often providing feedback to Mike, and not just because I would easily give it, but because he would frequently seek it.   While Kayla credits Mike for how wonderful of a Dom he is for her, Mike was quick to remind her that it came with a lot of insights from me.   

With a little reflection, any bruised ego or defensiveness I felt was quickly replaced with positive feelings.  Kayla’s “declaration” is part of the success of her growth that I have played a part in.  Far from feeling defensive, I feel admiration, love, pride, and joy – both to and from Kayla.  

Now, I know most of you pervs are saying, “Finally, you made your point.  Now, just tell us what the hell Kayla did and how she was summarily punished for it!”   Next post!

Post.  Love is not Pie

259. More Mike

259

I recently gave updates on Matt and Kayla, so clearly I need to give an update on the most important person in my life – my husband Mike!  And in doing so, it is also an update on me and our relationship as a whole. 

If you have followed my journey since the beginning, you know that Mike has been amazing.  I got us into Domestic Discipline and while he had some reservations, he was willing to give it a try.  And try he did.

I am fortunate that he and I have stayed pretty much on the same page throughout our journey.  While I think our open communication has a lot to do with it, we have also just been lucky.

MIKE
Mike is happier than he has ever been in our marriage.  There is evidence beyond his demeanor, such as, he says it!  And it isn’t happiness of power, but happiness in the results of his influence – over me, over the family.   His satisfaction stems from seeing his significant investment of his emotional “equity” into our relationship pay off.    

I made a lot of the day-to-day decisions pre-DD, or at least heavily influenced Mike such that I usually got my way.   You may think it is easy to take the reigns of a household and start making decisions, but it isn’t.  In part it just wasn’t his nature — a nature that I influenced for 20+ years.  He also wasn’t confident in how I would react to his new role.  In other words, he was a bit hesitant and afraid of “being an asshole.”  I have never once thought such a thing.

I think Post 160 and Post 205 best sum of his evolution and how great he is.  Mike is timely and effective in making decisions, big and small.  He has sky-high confidence in his role as disciplinarian.  He made the transition of simply executing on my wishes for him to be dominant, to actually becoming a Dom.  In fact, he may have evolved beyond where I would like him to be (more on that later).

Mike remains a wonderful father and an amazing husband.  He is a masterful Dom, both for me and Kayla – which is not easy as our needs as submissive are different.   And beyond just a Dom, he is a great husband.  He is loyal, trustworthy, sincere, a great listener, affectionate, empathetic, and the list goes on.  He is all those things to me, to our kids, and to Kayla.  It gives me great joy to share those things in him, with Kayla.

I mentioned before that Mike is an intensely private person.  He feels a lot of this stems from the childhood trauma from a robbery.   I shared before that his house was broken into and robbed when he was a child, and it was an extremely thorough robbery and what wasn’t taken was smashed and vandalized.

While he has come a long way in opening up to strangers, he still has a heightened distrust of people until he really gets to know them better.  — which is sometimes hard when he starts at a point of distrust.   Luckily he has a “tell all” wife who welcomes in anyone and everyone to help balance him out — although instead of “balance him out”, he tends to call it, “driving him crazy.”  lol.

JEN
Most of the journey was me pushing Mike to help me find my limits.  I found those limits.  I am where I want to be as his submissive and with DD.  This is one of the reasons my posts have lacked the yearning and self-revelations of my earlier posts.  I don’t yearn much and haven’t discovered some new revelation about myself.   

When I think back to what got me interested in DD, I never imagined how effective it would be in helping me be the person I wanted to be, nor what it would mean to my family for me to be that person.  My life feels tremendously purposeful and amazingly fulfilled.  So good that I feel a bit guilty in my pleasure when we are surrounded with so much suffering and injustice. 

My submissive mindset is sufficiently nourished, and not wanting.  But what of Mike’s dominant mindset?  Do we still have DD sympatico?  I mentioned he may have evolved beyond where I would like him to be.   More on that in another post….hee hee.  I love a cliffhanger.

And before I get into resolving that cliffhanger, how can I write about my relationship with Mike without stating how I reconcile the little minor fact that, well, you know, it kind of includes a third person…someone who has evolved into being almost like a co-wife to Mike, and a partner to me.  Kayla! 

Yes, I gave you an update about her…but what can I say specifically about our triad in the context of how it impacts my relationship with Mike?   I don’t think I adequately addressed that in my updates.  Since fully coming out to everyone about Kayla, I have had to answer some questions from family.  So what of those questions and of my answers? 

 Sounds like a great next post, so that cliffhanger will have to wait as I next address this issue of how I explain my “open” marriage to those who ask.   

 

 

257. More Kayla

257

I provided a “Matt update’ on my last post and thought it fitting to share a “Kayla update.”  It’s beyond just an update about her – it includes a significant update about us!

She completed her first year of grad school with excellent grades – and a year from now will be plunged into her working years.  Kayla had just turned 22 when she moved in with us. She is now 23 (and half, ha).   Normally you stop counting half years when what, you are about 10 or 11?  Well, I mention it because while a year-and-a-half seems like a short amount of time, for Kayla, every month marked a time of tremendous personal growth – so that “half” is very important. 

KAYLA RISING
She is different.  Outwardly you can see it.  She wasn’t overweight but has lost some weight and is quite toned (thanks to a steady exercise regimen).  It is more than just firmness and curves – the once wallflower now exudes self-confidence.  Her dress also matches this new persona, perhaps in part due to a mandated dress code that ditched the baggy t-shirts for skirts and dresses, but she has grown to love her wardrobe and despite its mandate, it reflects and celebrates who she has become.   

And more importantly, inwardly you can see it.  She is more outspoken – yes, even as a submissive. Submissive doesn’t mean silent.  She communications her feelings and views – again, you could say it is due in part from this being mandated as part of our rules (and frankly, is just part of our family culture), but it too has become her.  Her fear of rejection is gone.      

She was already wise for her age at 21-22.  And now at 23, she really has a great grasp on making choices that fulfill her in healthier ways.  She has applied all the new things she has learned about herself and has shown that she just doesn’t need as much advice.  Not to say that she doesn’t ask – it is just less so.   

She has a great group of friends of her own, and continues to be an important and loved member of our household.  She is also thriving as a submissive – she will do anything for Mike.  You can see the yearning in her to please him and how fulfilling it is for her to do so.  And her and I have a great, loving relationship.  

I don’t discipline her as we have made it a point for me not to be her disciplinarian.  And while at first she still highly deferred to me, there is less and less of that.  And that is by design, from both of us.  Part of it was she knew she was the “outsider” coming into “my house,” so she showed deference out of respect.  As she saw she was not only being accepted, but that her thoughts and wishes were valued by me, she learned she didn’t need to defer.     

I feel her relationship with Mike suits both her and Mike well.  She craves submission, specifically from Mike, but frankly, she has a need for it to come from a man.  It simply doesn’t serve her needs to be submissive to me (nor does it serve mine).  Simply put, our three-way relationship has evolved to meet all our needs — and that is how relationships should evolve, else you discover that aren’t fulfilling and realize it is time to move on. 

Kayla recognizes the changes in her and is quick to express her gratitude for how we have helped her.  She tells me that she is specifically grateful to me for giving her opportunities to explore her relationship with Mike, independent of me, as well as allowing her “equal input” on various things that come up.  Not that she always gets her way, but she always feels heard and validated by me. 

I think it was very important for her to get that from another woman.  Although my relationship with her started out with me being somewhat of a mother figure to her, it has evolved beyond that.  She doesn’t need mothering any more.  She is a fully functional, confident, vibrant, and flourishing adult.  

I love this!  The purpose of all my advice was not to clip her wings and make her dependent,  it was to strengthen her wings so she can soar on her own – and she is soaring.

TELLING HER PARENTS / TELLING ALL
I don’t think I shared this before, but if I did, I don’t think I wrote much about it.  Kayla has told her parents about her relationship with Mike and I.  They weren’t thrilled, but they apparently took it well.  They already knew Kayla was bisexual, so that wasn’t new to them. 

I’ve shared that Mike and I are now in the open about Kayla – and we are now 100% open.  Family, friends, anyone!  Not that we ran and told people, but, as the situation warrants, we explain it.  For instance, Mike didn’t announce it to all his coworkers, but he did tell a few of them and told them it wasn’t any secret – so I am sure his entire office knows.

This “telling all” had a tremendous impact on Kayla.  Being unable to proclaim our love for each other can really take a toll.  It would be awkward in social situations for her to have to be on alert to make sure she “played the friend” versus the lover.  No more.

THE FUTURE?
When Kayla first moved in we talked about her living with us while she finished grad school and then she would move on into full independent adulthood.

With just a year to go before she finishes school, Kayla got to thinking about what she would be doing a year from now.  She said she was nervous to share with us what was on her mind.  She told us that she wants to stay with us, indefinitely.

We welcomed her declaration!

DEFINING OUR RELATIONSHIP – CEREMONY
Her commitment to us is that she is dedicated to our relationship, not due to a sense of obligation, but due to the love she feels from us and towards us.  Dedicated, in our relationship, doesn’t mean exclusive, as she is open to dating again, but is not actively looking to do so.

We subsequently talked about having a ceremony, honoring our commitment and recognizing her position in our relationship (my idea, and Mike agreed).  Nothing over the top – not like a formal ceremony – basically a party where we make an extended toast/declaration regarding our relationship.  So yeah, like a ceremony. 

Beyond this “ceremony,” we are also taking a few other steps as ways to show a greater committment between the three of us.    

FINANCES
We are combining finances.  I can hear the “uh-oh” coming from some of you.  Once you talk money in a relationship things can get a bit wonky.   But, she is either part of our family or isn’t, and as far as we are concerned, she is.  And actually, it is a bit anti-climatic because as part of her submission she gave up choices in spending her money.  Mike already monitors and controls her spending.   

I shared a bit about how we manage our finances in Post 181. Domestic Financial Discipline.   Kayla will now be on our “day-to-day account” and any money she has to deposit will go into the “bills account.”   She isn’t working right now, but does get a little money each month from her dad to help with living expenses – he promised her he would continue to do that as long as she was going to school, and, he is also paying for her schooling.

Kayla had been paying us rent, because she insisted on doing so. She will no longer do that.  All her money simply goes into our account and her and I have a budget on what we can spend – and we have to get Mike’s permission for anything beyond things like food or gasoline.   The end result is that there really isn’t any change in how she spends her money – and it wasn’t like she was building a savings of any kind.  It’s not like her dad is giving her a lot of money – just enough to get by.

BEDROOM
I have shared before that Kayla’s bedroom is basically part of our master bedroom.  When we had the house built we had an option of putting a door to one of the bedrooms either in the hall or, where a wall would have been in our master bedroom.  We opted for access via the master bedroom.  It was great when the room served as a nursery, and we felt at some point it would be converted into a sitting room or office.  It makes the master suite seem really huge as you open these double doors to this small entry way.  To your your left is another door to this “hidden” bedroom, and to your right is a door to the actual master bedroom.

Even though the three of us have been sharing the same bed for some time, there was still this visual of “Kayla’s bedroom” versus “our” (Mike and I) bedroom.  And it was also part of our vocabulary.  These visual and those words are powerful and aren’t reflective of our true relationship.

Thus, Mike is moving his home office into what was Kayla’s bedroom and the master is officially “ours” (Mike, me, and Kayla).  The room currently serving as Mike’s office will be a guest room.  A bonus of my dress code is that I pared down my wardrobe such that our master closet has a lot of room.  Kayla’s stuff fit nicely in it.  Even though we haven’t yet moved any furniture, we did move her things into our closet.  That gesture seems small but was extremely powerful – as we hung her last bit of clothing, Kayla began to cry — tears of joy.  This symbolic gesture means a lot to her, and to us.

COMMITMENT
What this all comes down to is that we are all in a committed relationship.  We understand that our commitment is no more permanent than commitments made in any other type of relationship.  Unmarried people living together can split up and married people can divorce — but those possibilities don’t lessen their commitment. 

Kayla can leave at any time, but that doesn’t lessen her commitment.  However, because it is so easy for her to break off from us, it is important to her, and to us, to go out of our way to demonstrate a deeper commitment.  It can’t be a wedding ring, but, we can stop hiding the role she has in our lives and we can look for subtle, but powerful, ways to demonstrate commitment. 

Our “commitment party”  is one such way.  Combining the finances is another.  There are some other ways as well, but I don’t want to share those just yet.

THE FUTURE BEYOND THAT?
While Kayla expressed her desire to be committed beyond the end of her schooling, let’s face it, she is 23, Mike and I are closing in on our 50’s.   As much growing Kayla has done from 21-23, she may continue to rapidly evolve from 23-25.  What does the 25-year old Kayla need compared to what our relationship provides?  What of the 27-year old Kayla?  30?

We talked about this and all agreed that, just like any other relationship, if it reaches a point it is no longer fulfilling, whether it be because priorities change, people change, or whatever the cause — well, that’s when you re-evaluate.  And hopefully we are all loving enough to not take offense if that were to occur.  In our case, it is not only understandable, but somewhat predictable.  We recognize our age differences may eventually matter.  Kayla may meet someone she wants to marry, she may want a child, she may yearn to be on her own.  All normal things a 20-something could want and all things that may be difficult for our relationship to support.

We aren’t looking for a lifetime commitment.  That would be silly and put unnecessary pressure on everyone.   Beyond a dedication to each other, we are dedicated and committed to the principles we have established as the ground rules for our household.  Those principles demand that if Kayla reaches a point where she yearns for something the relationship can’t provide, she is encouraged. . . no, she is required, to not allow the relationship to get in the way of her fulfillment.  Further, if (when) it comes to that point, we are required to support her.

Next: 258. Planning Immersion III – Surprise, surprise, surprise