Tag Archives: shame

284. The family commune – Give nudism a chance

284

I’ve got some “DD” things to share, but had this post half written so thought I’d finish it up before going on to kinkier things!    By the way, our party (283. We are three), is tonight.  All the preparations are done and it looks like the weather is going to cooperate.

I was having another one of those in-depth conversation with one of my sisters regarding my choices in life.   Yes, it had many of the same questions and issues she raised previously (Post 200. Balloons and Submission for one).     But this time, most of her concerns centered around nudity.   Her concerns were prompted by the fact that T&E’s home (my son and soon-to-be daughter-in-law) has jokingly become the “family commune.”

That is, it’s a place people in the family go to get away and relax.  I shared previously that the they bought a house on about 50 acres, and plan to have a small farm — beehives, some pigs, and chickens.  Both of them work full time jobs, so the farm is more a hobby and will be fairly small in scale.  Oh, and by the way, their wedding is in two weeks.

I also shared that E grew up in a naturist family — both her parents grew up that way and their relatives on both side are immersed in the naturist lifestyle with few exceptions.   T has adopted this, and subsequently so have we.   You can read all about this in several posts I’ve made —   227. Naturism Rant, 233. Meet the Nudies, 242. On the Nudie Farm, 250. The Nude Normal252.  Naked Caravan,   255. Vacation Naked264. Won’t you be my (nude) neighbor?

Wow, has this turned into a nudist blog?  Ha!

Anyway — as shared in 252. Naked Carvan, many of my nieces and nephews made the trek to T&E’s house in part to chip in and help out with renovations and clearing some of the land, and in part to just have fun and hang out.   Most of them are young adults ranging from early 20’s to early 30’s.  One niece, my sister’s daughter, is 17.   And yes, when in Rome, you do as the Romans do…or in this case, when at T&E’s, you do as the nudist’s do.  They all got naked. 

Since that initial visit, it’s a rare weekend that T&E don’t have some guests — one of T’s cousin’s spending a day or two.  Sometimes they even bring a friend.  And far from feeling intruded upon, T&E both love this as they like the idea of their house being a gathering place.   And despite some reservations, there are times my sister has allowed her 17-year old to visit and spend a day or even night on the farm – and she has also brought a friend with her (female friend). 

Well, unbeknownst to my sister, on one of her daughter’s day trips to the farm she went with her boyfriend.  My niece eventually told her mom (my sis) after the fact, and it didn’t sit well with her.   My sister knows her daughter is having sex, so it isn’t that fact that disturbs her.  It is just the idea of “flaunting their bodies” in front of each other and the “obviously sexually charged atmosphere” of it all.

MY NUDISM RANT
My sisters are pretty good at pushing my buttons and sending me on a rant (120. Is this submissive a feminist? MAGA rant).  And so I proceeded along the lines of what I posted in Post 227. Naturism Rant

In her mind, the get-a-ways to the farm are nothing more than a sex filled day of debauchery.   I tried to explain that nudism and sex are distinct, and in fact, nudism serves to de-sexualize nudity, not hyper-sexualize it.

I told my sister her reaction is based on preconceived notions about nudity that conjure up feelings of shame, embarrassment, guilt, and sex.  Heck, even the bible tells us about the moment humans first “realized” they were naked, quickly followed by the moment they were first ashamed of being naked. 

In her mind, showing off a naked body sends out sexual signals that threaten the security of relationships and mankind.   And what better way to suppress nudity than to use shame, as shame is the ideal emotion to enforce any code of conduct.  Shame sucks – and we tend to want to avoid feeling it at all costs.

Well, whether it is shame of nakedness or shame over our kinks or shame over anything else —  we are not born with shame.  Instead, we learn it.   And the shame we learn is artificial — there should be no shame in it.  It only exists because we agree it exists and we agree it exists as a way of controlling conduct.  (And you can easily substitute the word “sin” for “shame,” but I won’t go there).

At one time I was right there with sis  – I felt the shame in it as well.  Hell, I know that is exactly why we made nudity part of my duties in my DD.  It was a way to feel some degree of shame or humbleness.   Well, since adopting nudism, I do not get any “kink” or “submissive” satisfaction from being naked.  That “shame” feeling has been purged.

And nothing changed, except my perception – which is what makes “shame” such a false feeling when it comes to nudity.  There is nothing shameful about it.   Only your perception makes it so.    And to justify that feeling, we then attach all sorts of terrible things to nakedness — it must be sexual, it must be prurient, it must weaken the fibers of society, it must be a contributor to all that is bad, etc, etc.   Well that’s just crap, and I told her so. 

Not to be so naive, I did concede that sure, her daughter might have had sex when she went to T&E’s with her boyfriend, no more than they might do so anytime they have the chance.  I mean, they are teenagers!    But if they did, it wasn’t because of the nudity.  

Ultimately, I urged my sister to spend a day at T&E’s, nude herself.   And not just holed up in their house, but go about the property, visit with E’s cousin’s (who live next door – 233. Meet the Nudies,  Even go there with her daughter and her daughter’s boyfriend!

I said that knowing that while she might give it a try herself, there was no way she would do so with her daughter’s boyfriend along.  But my sister surprised me.  “Okay, if V (her husband) is up for it, we’ll make a go at it, including inviting her boyfriend.”   My jaw dropped.  I thought she was kidding.  But not only wasn’t she kidding, but she actually followed through.  

To make a long story short — they spent a weekend at T&E’s – two days/one night.   

SIS GETS NAKED
My sister came back with mixed reviews, but with some changes in her attitude about nudism.  She agreed she was starting to feel more comfortable and less self-conscious towards the end, but still wasn’t fully comfortable.  However, she really focused on everyone else and could see just how “normal” everyone else treated the nudity around them.  She could see that there weren’t “sexual sparks flying around.”  She even admitted there was an element of fun for her and her husband.   

And she admitted her self-consciousness started to morph towards self-affirmation regarding her body image.  She is a little overweight, and is 57, so was admittedly uneasy.   And while she never got 100% comfortable, the comfort she saw in others made her want to try this again and get to their level of comfort.

I am so proud of her for being willing to “risk it” and give this go.   She also had wonderful things to say about T&E and had many of the same wonderful observations that I already shared about E’s cousin’s (The Nudies).

A few days after my sisters return from T&E’s, she said she looks forward to visiting them again some time soon, and, told me that perhaps they would join us if we decided to do a nude vacation again. 

Wow.  I am so surprised, but elated.   It reconfirmed my experience that nudism is addicting, and after a surprisingly very little adjustment period, feels so natural and so uplifting.   You become a walking self-affirmation and have this tremendous sense of freedom, a sense of being one with the people and nature around you.   I believe this is why Mike took to it, much to my surprise, and why my sister seems to taking to it, even more to my surprise!

I definitely recommend everyone give nudism a try. 

NEXT: 285. Curfew and Spanking the Jelly?

178. Embracing Shame

shame

I posted before about how Kayla’s submission is different from mine (Post 111. DD Jenny Style vs. Kayla Style).  I thought I’d revisit this as I’ve been thinking about the feelings I get versus the feelings she gets from being submissive and from being disciplined.  Writing about this then morphed into something a little different.  It led me to dive more deeply into my feelings, more specifically, my feelings of shame, and why I embrace that feeling.  Hey’s it’s been awhile since I’ve had an esoteric ramble.  Indulge me! 

Words won’t tell the complete story because words carry different meanings for each of us.  Whatever words I use will probably be taken to mean something different by some of you, and those differences may be small, or may be large.  Overall I would say Kayla’s submission has more “grit” to it than mine.  The discipline she receives is more harsh than mine.  I am tempted to use words like demeaning or humiliating but I know Kayla does not see it that way.  She likes to frame it as her finding growth, healing, and thus ultimately satisfaction, in feelings of shame and embarrassment in front of Mike.  She does not label what she feels as feelings of being demeaned or humiliated.

It made me think more deeply about the differences between humiliation and shame and led me to further embrace shame. 

HUMILIATE VS HUMBLE
Humiliation connotes disgrace or disrepute.  It infers feelings that clearly cross over from simple humility into, well, into humiliation.  But, the definition of humiliation includes “shame,” and “embarrassment.”   Hum. . . the exact words Kayla uses to define her feelings on being disciplined.

This just underscores for me that words are power and the same word can mean different things to different people.  It would be easy for me to label what she goes through as “humiliation” and while many of the feelings she gets fit that definition, she would never describe it that way.  Interesting.  And I am sure some of you would label what I go through as “humiliation” and I would never describe it that way.  Interesting indeed!

I know some of you may be like me and view humiliation as a more intense and unpleasant version of humility.  Other may see them as essentially identical, so much so you may be fine with exploring deeper and deeper senses of humiliation.   Nothing wrong with that, but that’s not me.  But, it does seem to be more to Kayla’s liking.

DEGRADE VERSUS SHAME
Clearly humiliation and shame are at least cousins, if not siblings.  They come from similar places but carry a different meaning.   And what “humiliation” is to “humbled,” I think “degrading” is to “shame.”  The definition of degrading also includes the word shame and humiliation. So again, in a lot of ways all these words are the same — but yet different.  The difference is in degrees as measured by each individual person.   To me, being degraded is like humiliation and shame on steroids.  To others, simply being made to feel shameful could be considered degrading.

One of my feelings during discipline is a feeling of shame.  Shame for my behavior and a keen awareness of my guilt.  I often think that is why discipline is so effective.   The various negative feelings anyone may have about their behavior is often locked up deep inside, behind their pride and arrogance.  Unlocking those feelings often require more than just a talk.  Domestic Discipline helps unlock those feelings.  More precisely, the shame that discipline evokes helps unlock and purge those feelings.

CRYING
Here was an interesting connection for me.  Kayla said the likelihood and degree of her crying during discipline correlates to the degree of shame and embarrassment she was feeling.  I sort of knew this, but never fully connected that.  When she said it, I immediately recognized that I feel exactly the same way!   While the actual physical pain might be part of any crying, it is more about the emotional release of the guilt through the shame.  Very much the reason I cried during the last spanking I shared.  The more shame I feel, the more likely I am to cry.

Both Kayla and I agreed that embarrassment also plays a small part in the “cry factor.”  The first ten times or so of being disciplined carried a lot of “embarrassment” factor, thus more tears.  Likely from a combination of nervousness from uncertainty along with the embarrassment from the vulnerability of being naked.  Of course, then there is the whole feeling of knowing you are going to be spanked.  There is still the occasional feeling of embarrassment when we do something particularly bad.  For me it is more likely to come with a repeated offense.

I have evolved in my submission where I feel greater absolution, greater nourishment, greater release of negative thoughts, a greater connection with Mike, a greater connection with who I want to be — all through feeling ashamed of my behavior or attitude.  I believe this is why I evolved from needing Mike to “correct me” when I failed myself, i.e., “My DD,” to needing him to do so when I fail him, i.e., “DD for me.” (Post 167. What is “Mine” versus What is “For Me”).  Further, it is why I wanted him to make lecturing or scolding me a regular part of my Discipline.  For me, it carries more shame to fail him than it does to fail myself.  Through that shame, I heal, I improve, I achieve, I love.

Any discipline I receive is a process that leads, sometimes painfully, to the point of awakening my sense of shame.  And the greater my shame, the greater the tears.  Discipline as a deterrent is not just about the unpleasantness of being spanked , it is about the even greater unpleasantness of being made to feel ashamed of my actions.

NUDITY
Thought I’d comment on this since I mentioned it as part of the “embarrassment” factor.  It goes beyond just embarrassment.  Heck, my husband has seen me naked countless times.  It is not about shame regarding my body.  Far from it.  It is about vulnerability.  We are naturally more humbled when we feel vulnerable, thus it feeds into the feeling of humbleness (or humiliation if you prefer).

Oh – nudity, at least being bare-bottom at a minimum, also serves a functional purpose in discipline.  It is wise for the Dom to be able to see the results of what they are doing so as not to inflict unintended injury.

LECTURING
In the past, Mike did not lecture or scold me during Discipline.  Sometimes he would say something briefly about what I did, but it didn’t amount to scolding.  I wanted to add this to our dynamic and Mike readily agreed.  While I have yet to experience it, I am more afraid of my first lecture than I am of my next spanking.   It makes my stomach turn to knots and I can almost cry just thinking about it.

I can imagine his lecturing will make it painfully clear (as in emotionally painful) that I let myself and him down.  That he must take and is willing to take this drastic action because he loves me and knows it is for my own good.  I know he prefers not to spank me, but his greatest preference is to not encourage my misbehavior.  He has that preference because he loves me and he knows it is also my preference.  Just thinking about all of this makes me want to cry – and then you add the physical discipline to it.   Yikes!

DISCIPLINE CEREMONY
I thought it would be helpful to add this.  I think having a Discipline Ceremony also feeds into my sense of shame.  You can read about our Ceremony in our Contract.  Having to remain silent, having to collect the implement, having to stand in the corner, having to assume whatever position he asks,  or whatever else is expected of me during the Discipline — all have a humbling, thus shameful impact on me.

Shame from the Ceremony.   Shame from Nudity.  Shame from Physical Discipline.  I am accustomed to those.  Now, we have Shame from Lecturing.  I talked with Mike and forewarned him I may cry like never before the first time I have to be Disciplined under our newest agreement.   I don’t want him to be caught off guard by it or misinterpret it.

I embrace shame.  I embrace it as my healer, as my absolution, as my willingness to submit to Mike.

NEXT: 179. Kayla’s Social Life

103. A Curious Cat

curiouscat

A reader, Curious Cat, commented on my last post and shared his observations about what I have shared and he posed some interesting questions.  I thought the answers deserved their own post.

Warning – no spanking stories here.  Just a bit of a rant and ramble about this, that, and the other.  Okay, more than a bit.  It’s more like an epic ramble on my part.  I thought of omitting it, but it felt so good to get it out of my system, so you’re stuck with a choice of reading it or not.  If you stick with reading through it, you will find that I eventually address his questions!

MONOLOGUE
First I’ll ruminate on some things before I directly answer the questions he posed.  I can imagine how my life is perceived by those reading my blog.   Surely my days are consumed with the things I post about?  Sorry, truth is these posts are simply glimpses into a particular moment.   Much of my day is mundane and ordinary.  The ordinary isn’t the focus of my blog.  My focus is on how Domestic Discipline shapes my life.  Here’s something “ordinary” – I like to cook and try new recipes – in fact, I follow several cooking/baking oriented blogs (whose author’s probably gasp when they click on a comment I made and arrive at my blog!).  I don’t blog about my kitchen experiments or great recipe find.  Not because those things aren’t interesting to me – it just isn’t the purpose of my blog.

With that said, yes, even the ordinary parts of my day are susceptible to an injection of something erotic or scintillating.  Such is the byproduct of the lifestyle Mike and I have chosen.  You can certainly have a DD lifestyle sans the eroticism, but that isn’t us. 

I have written about how the pace of the last eight months has surprised me.  Our first year of DD was confined to sexual exploration between just Mike and I.  Even after nearly 25 years of marriage, DD opened us up to more exploration between the two of us than I thought possible.  That exploration started taking a new path about the time I started blogging.  First John and Donna, then Kayla. 

I mentioned before that I believe this happened because we were open to such things.   We never sought out to say, “We are open to having sex with John and Donna,” or, “Let’s see if Kayla wants to join us.”  Instead, we agreed that our relationship was full of love and understanding and we both aspired to help the other experience their dreams, hopes, and desires.   That openness positioned us to be accepting of certain things.  Once you are open to such things, those things are likely to occur.  Some may call it karma or apply something mystical or spiritual to it.  I simply look at it as awareness.   It’s like when you buy a new car and then suddenly see that same make and model everywhere.  They’ve always been there, but your mind is now tuned in to recognize them.   It’s not magic, it is simply awareness.

Mike and I were in a mindset that made us more aware of the sexual exploring that was available to us.  I mentioned before that Mike and I attended two FetLife functions.  We stopped going primarily because we were both satisfied with our relationship with John and Donna.  If our relationship with them didn’t turn sexual, I am sure we would have met other people and explored whatever interested us.  So if not John, Donna, and Kayla, I am sure I would be posting about other erotic adventures.  

Back on Post 14 I mentioned a growing sexual subtext to our DD.  I can directly link it to the addition of something in our last contract revision in October 2015.  I cover that in Post 16, Sexual Thoughts, Dreams, Desires, Fantasies.   It required me to share all my sexual thoughts, dreams, desires, and fantasies with Mike.  I won’t rehash what all that entails (read post 16 if you’d like).  Suffice to say it led to Mike reciprocating.  Once we could have a completely open and honest discussion about those things we could then talk about what we truly wanted to explore and what we wanted to leave as strictly fantasy.   THAT opened the floodgates to what led to John, Donna, and Kayla.  

Curious Cat’s Questions
Curious Cat asked if, in looking back, I see the seeds of the life I am now living.  The short answer is no.  While I would never in a million years have envisioned living the life I live now, I do see the characteristics I had (and still have) that allowed me to seek and accept this lifestyle. 

I am curious and willing to try new things.  Secondly, I am nonjudgmental and tend not to attach stigma or bias or judgement based on a few data points.  “Oh, he’s a Republican therefore…”  “Oh, look at that immigrant, they are….”   “Oh, she likes anal, therefore…”   “Oh, he will suck dick therefore…”   While I am not perfect in this (we all have biases of various sorts), I tend not to attach shame or judgement (on others or myself) based on a select few behaviors or characteristics.  While I may not be a Republican immigrant who likes to suck dick, I still don’t judge Ted Cruz.    Pause.  Insert laugh track.  Okay, that was a joke.  Pause.  Wait for it… Of course I judge Ted Cruz, he is an a-hole.  But I digress. 

I also am generally not a jealous person — not to say that jealously isn’t foreign to me.  I’ve got prior posts to prove that.  But, I do not get jealous when Mike enjoys himself without me.  Think of it this way – I love going to zoos, museums, and theme parks.  Mike is accepting of that and enjoys them enough to come along sometimes, but I often go with J and without Mike.   Even when it means an out of town trip overnight or several nights.  Sometimes Mike comes, sometimes he doesn’t.   I can enjoy myself in that manner without any stigma or shame. 

Mike likes sports.  Me?  Meh!  I can watch a bit here and there, and enjoy going to live sporting events, but I can’t park myself in front of the tv to watch an entire football game.   Mike really enjoys it, thus he often goes over to John’s or John comes to our house and they hang out watching the game.  I may stick around or I may go run errands.  It isn’t my thing.   Again, no stigma or shame in that.

Why is sex so different?  Because society as a whole says so.   There are millions of people who do not conform to various societal “norms.”  Just because these people are in the minority doesn’t mean they are defective or should feel shameful.   We can list a dozen societal “norms” and likely identify with one or more that we don’t conform to.   And these norms are certainly not sacred.    Look at the “norms’ of twenty years ago, fifty years ago, a hundred…. they change!  They change because as a whole we are more enlightened, more accepting, more understanding.   As a human race we are slowly but surely collectively realizing that because you are “x” doesn’t mean you are therefore “y.”   Those X’s are more like you and me than they are different, and their X does not diminish their worth as a human. 

Unfortunately as we move towards greater acceptance of each other, those who are unable to be accepting will continue to become more desperate to hold on to their inability to accept.  They will hold on to their bias or their fear or their hate.  They will continue to try harder and harder to force their “norms” on us by passing laws, restricting voting rights, gerrymandering, and the various other tools that allow a minority view to prevail for as long as possible.  In the short run they will and have succeeded here and there.   But as their numbers continue to dwindle, they lose more than they win (latest presidential election excluded) and eventually they will lose.

Okay, I lost my way here. . .
Sorry to get off topic.  My point isn’t that we are heading towards everyone embracing DD.  My point is we are heading towards fewer and fewer people caring about what people do with their private lives to the extent those actions do not negatively affect them.   It’s called freedom.  It’s also called love and acceptance.   Love is not shame.  Love is not damnation.   Funny but the millennials seem to understand this.  I wish more of the age 30+ crowd did.

While I hope for greater society acceptance of all types of people, when it comes to our specific personal relationships, our acceptance will always have limits as we are individuals with different needs and desires.  We surround ourselves with people whose limits give us the greatest sense of love, acceptance, and security.  That said, we don’t have to try and impose those limits on society as a whole.  If a couple wants separate beds like Ricky and Lucy and use sex only for procreation – go for it.  If a couple wants to share their bed with others and likes to be tied up and spanked – go for that too!   My wish is for people to engage life to the fullest, however it may fulfill them – just so long as it doesn’t come at the expense of others fulfillment. 

Sorry, don’t know where all that came from.  I guess it just struck a chord in me and I had to vent.

OH YEAH, BACK TO CURIOUS CAT’S QUESTIONS
Curious Cat, I completely understand and accept that you were not judging me in any way.  I hope you don’t feel my rant was due to feeling defensive about your comments.  I felt no such defensiveness.  My tirade sprung from really connecting with why I am open to sexual exploration.  It then caused me to want to address the stigma that is too often attached to that.  Sorry for getting so far off topic but it felt good for me to express that stuff.  I hadn’t really tried to put those feelings into words before.

You asked if Mike and I had ever had threesomes pre-DD. No.  There was actually an opportunity for one but it did not happen because we were not open to it at the time.  My guess is there were probably many more opportunities that we weren’t even aware of simply because we were not open or in-tune with it.   Pre-DD we were pretty vanilla.  No toys, no paddles, not sexual accoutrements.  I will say that if we were both limber enough to bend a certain way, then we tried it, but other than that, pretty vanilla.

You asked about whether this more extreme version of Mike was visible to me back in my vanilla days.  I wouldn’t call his current actions “extreme” but clearly, they are not reflective of his pre-DD days.  Mike has always been easy going and not that much of a take charge guy.  While he has become very comfortable in his role as a dom, he still surprises me when he comes up with something very Dom-like that I don’t expect. 

Mike has shared that he has found he is less passive even at work, than he used to be.  He isn’t aggressive in a mean way or overly authoritarian way, but he said he has found he holds others a lot more accountable than he used to and it actually has made him a better leader at work.  He said he believes it is about confidence, not arrogance, and about being bold, without being a bully. He credits that to our DD.

You said you can’t imagine your wife masturbating in front of neighbors, swinging, or taking on a third.  What CAN you both imagine doing?  Whatever it is, do it!  I encourage you both to share your dreams, desires, and fantasies (whether or not sexual) and then talk about which ones you want to explore and which ones you want to leave as fantasy.   If you both are completely honest with each other you’ll both know what is and is not productive to your marriage.  To me, Pandora’s Box is the unsaid expectations that someone has and then they later are filled with resentment when those expectations are not met. The way to keep that box closed is to not have any unsaid expectations.  (I talked about this is post 81. Expectations). 

Communicate, communicate, communicate!   When a couple shares all their thoughts with each other it displays a willingness to be vulnerable to each other.  I believe that if you aren’t willing to be vulnerable with the person you love the most in this life, then you are missing out on a big part of what love is.    I have always loved my husband, but that love has deepened more than I ever imagined once I became vulnerable to him.  And vulnerability has a way of being reciprocated and Mike is much more vulnerable to me now, as a Dom, than he was pre-DD.  I talked about this in my Post 67: An Esoteric Ramble.  To me, if someone is with a person that they feel is not worthy of their vulnerability, then perhaps they are with the wrong person.   

I am not directing that comment at you, Curious Cat.  It was just a general statement and my words are intended to encourage people to completely open up with their partners and share their full selves with their partner.  Anything less is unfair to you and to them.

Next: 104. What’s my Role?  Dom-ish?

78. Three’s -not- a crowd?

threes

I feel a bit naughty with how I ended my last post. It sure inferred a lot of stuff with my last line – and I fully intended for that.  I like doing that in a post (maybe I will do it on this one, hint hint).  It is fun to let your imagination run wild, as it is likely more exciting, daring, and shocking than real life.  The problem is, it is reality, not a story. But boy, what a story it could be!

This post may be different from my others. I typically share a situation or feeling and try to take it through to conclusion. I try hard to be authentic, accurate, and open with you, thus probably err on the side of TMI. But even while being a bit too verbose I do try to provide you with a read that has some forward momentum to it. For this post I am far from a conclusion and don’t know where this will go, but it sure seems to be leaning a certain way.  Flooding you with my prose won’t make for a good read so I’ll do my best to revise and edit my pounding out of random thoughts.  You can be the judge if I am successful or not.

If you haven’t read about Kayla, you can do so here and here.

Despite all that Kayla has revealed to me (and I to her), I still can’t let myself think of her in “that” way. I recognize she is an adult, but a young one at that. I am stuck on the fact that if one of my sons had a sexual relationship with a woman who was 25 years older than they are, I would be highly suspicious of that woman. Despite my tendency to assume the best in people, and to not judge them on a single criteria, that tendency is squashed when it comes to the thought of that. I guess since I would not look fondly upon it, it is hard for me to open myself up to the possibilities.

HOWEVER, Mike looks at it differently. The primary difference is that again, I think I see myself as more motherly in my relationship with Kayla. Mike on the other hand, sees her as a “hot young thing” that wants us.   After talking with Mike, I figured before we get to riled up in our differences, let’s find out how she see us. Perhaps she isn’t even interested. Well, that got clarified both yesterday and today.

Mike did say that now that Kayla knows a bit about our dynamic that all rules apply when Kayla is around.   He said he reserves the right to punish me with her watching, but would be mindful of not making Kala uncomfortable. I think that means he won’t actually do it, but he likes the threat of me thinking that he might. Honestly, I like it too. That is, I like the threat that it could happen, but honestly, I don’t want it to.

Sure enough, Kayla came over about 1pm yesterday as she just had morning classes. I jokingly told her she was just a voyeur and came over just to see my tits. Her sly response was “Maybe, but that was just a bonus. Really, I want to talk more.”

So we talked as I went through my daily chores. It was nice to have an extra set of hands to fold clothes and stuff like that. She shared more details about her sexual experiences as well as her views on both relationships in general and her various relationships specifically. I learned that her best friend is 28 and her best friends’ boyfriend is 31. This is the couple that she often joins with in a threesome. I didn’t realize they were that much older than her. Granted, 7 and 10 years isn’t huge, but to me a big difference between 21 and 31. I guess that is my personal hang up.

In turn I ended up sharing more with her about our DD lifestyle. Kayla asked a lot of questions and it got to the point that it seemed pointless to hold back certain things.   While I didn’t tell her everything, such as the relationship with John and Donna, I told her plenty. I ended up giving her the name of my blog and told her that it would completely reveal my DD journey to her (as well as what goes on with John and Donna). I did tell her that I blogged about her and used her real name. Oops, I hadn’t thought about that when I first mentioned her. Anyway, she was fine with that and was anxious to look it up. She got on her phone right away and started reading some of it – enough to make me blush – hey, I never knew that even my boobs turned a bit red when I blush. Is that normal?

Okay, so I am basically fully out when it comes to Kayla and being a pretty straightforward person I just put it out there and asked her if she had any inclinations about sex with Mike and I. She didn’t say no, but she was a bit hesitant. She said the thought did cross her mind but she wasn’t sure what she wanted. She did say she has always liked older people – all her friends were always older, even when she was in high school, I knew that as a freshman she seemed to be friends with most of the seniors, and as a senior, all her close friends were in college or finishing up college. She did say she had a bit of a crush on Mike when she was younger, but hadn’t really thought of him in “that” way.

She of course then turned the tables and asked me what I thought. I told her that I was very fond of her company, enjoy being around her, and think she is a wonderful human being. I told her she was beautiful, both inside and out, however, I am stuck not just on the age difference, but by the fact we have known her since she was so young that I have a hard time thinking of her in “that” way. I told her that it is hard for someone to think of their parents or their kids as sexual beings. Everyone else can be wild sexual beings, but not parents or children.   She laughed as she agreed that she can’t think of her parents that way either. I told her I think of her more as an extension of the family, closer to a daughter than just a babysitter or neighbor. Thus my hang up.

In all the conversation went very well. I did sense that she was unsure, albeit perhaps for difference reasons than me. So, I felt relieved and that there was nothing imminent to justify worrying about this.

When I talked to Mike last night and shared the conversation I had with Kayla, he got pretty excited over the prospects. While Kayla didn’t say she was game, it seemed clear that she likely would be. Now, this could have become an argument between Mike and me, but I kept my cool.   I told him that there is absolutely no doubt or hesitation that I would go along with his wishes as I always fully intend to honor my sexual submission to any of his wishes. (It’s in the contract!)  That being said, I did have reservations.

I explained that while we know Kayla well, we don’t know her that well. I didn’t know about her sex life and while I don’t find it shocking, it does raise safety questions for us. We have kept our “swinging” to just John and Donna. Expanding that opens not only us up to STD’s and the like, but opens up John and Donna. We can take precautions, but, that is a change in our “routine” and we would have to stick with it.

More importantly, as Kayla revealed more things to me I have found her to be a bit needier than I previously perceived her to be. She has some emotional baggage and my arm-chair psychological diagnosis is that some of her sexploration is to fill a need to be loved and accepted. Not to knock people who fit that description, but, I don’t know that I want to invite that type of neediness into my “inner circle.” My life is very good right now, so why potentially complicate it?

My next reasoning is that thus far if somehow any of my children found out about TTWD, I would not feel any embarrassment or shame. A bit uncomfortable yes, but more uncomfortable FOR them because I think they would be the ones more freaked out by it.   However, if we were to have sex with Kayla and they found it, I would feel terrible. This is someone they’ve known for a long time and is more of a peer to them. It would be way uncomfortable for me.

My final reasoning was that it was just too much, too fast. I tend to take a situation, do a deep dive into all the feelings and permutations of what if this, what if that, and then make a decision and move forward. As a submissive I have given up a lot of that in deference to Mike, and it has taught me that I don’t need to be in a rush to decide things. Of course, in our new dynamic it is not about me deciding things but I still get to be an advocate for my feelings.  I feel I must advocate for taking it slow, if at all. Last night after sharing all of this with Mike, he ultimately agreed with me.  Not so much that he saw it my way, but he saw that it was important to me and was willing to go along with it and not push the issue.  Then today happened.

Today
Kayla came over again. Back-to-back visits when she is not there to watch our son is rare, but, Kayla wanted to talk.   I was very open with her and shared every concern I shared here…both about sexual diseases and about neediness.  It was a very emotional conversation for her and while I got to understand her even better, it didn’t change my concerns.  One quick fairly comical aside – At one point when I was talking to her about all the reasons we should cool it and just put off even considering this for some time I told her, “I know it is very hard to come across as the prude when I am standing here with my tits out, but. . . “   Anyway, it got a laugh and helped break a bit of tension that had built up. Maybe you had to be there to get how funny it was. Oh well, next . . .

Then Mike came home a bit early and said he had a few things to finish up but would work out of his home office. Kayla already knew I had talked to Mike about all of this so when she saw him she boldly asked him his thoughts. Mike looked at me and I recognized his face as being the face of “oh crap, I don’t want to say something different than you.”   I told him, “Sir, whatever feelings you want to share about this is fine by me. You know I’ll support you, Sir.”

I thought he would perhaps take the opportunity to say, “Okay, let’s all get naked” but he didn’t. I was relieved when he said, “Kayla, we love you and want what is best for you. We don’t want our sexual appetites to cloud that.  Despite whatever fun or extra connection we could have by having sex, it may end up being a terrible thing for you. Let’s just take our time talking through it, understanding everyone’s needs and expectations better, and see where it goes. No harm in waiting, right?”

Kayla agreed, but reiterated to him what she told me previously. “I am not some fragile flower. I understand the pros and cons here.   All this talk makes it all sound so clinical and planned, which is a big turn is off.   I figure if it happens it would happen when we aren’t expecting it, and I certainly don’t want to have to schedule it. So, fine, yes, let’s just cool it. It sounds like we all want it on some level, so if it happens, it happens.”

Wow. I found her response very erotic! But I found Mike’s response an even greater turn on.

Mike responded, “If it happens, it happens. . . ‘Sir.’”

Kayla and I both smiled and she repeated, “Yes, if it happens, it happens, Sir!

NEXT: 79. Anxiety, Resentment, Jealously, Guilt.

39. What’s in a name? A spanking!

If you read the comments on my post, Uggh!  Assistance with Activities of Daily Living, you will find that I slipped and used the real names of our neighbors, “John and Donna.”  I’ve since edited the post to reflect “John and Donna,” but her real name does appear in the comment.

One of the reasons Mike and I chose to use our real names was exactly for that reason.  It is too hard to remember a lie.  The truth is just easier.  But John and Donna asked for pseudonyms, so that’s what I use.  I’ve been very careful with this but I had a lot of free time yesterday and I quickly did several posts in a row and wasn’t careful enough.

I told Mike, and in turn had to tell John and Donna.  They weren’t too upset.  Their real names are common names, and we don’t maintain common friends.  Donna and I basically both have a set of friends from our husband’s workplace, and then we have each other’s friendship.  While we have each met extended family members before, it isn’t that tight of an interaction.  Add in the chances of reading my blog are extremely low, overall, they felt the breach of privacy is highly unlikely to amount to anything.   Thankfully they are supportive of my blog and like reading about themselves, sans their real name.  So they said it was okay to leave the comment that was posted using her real name, but they simply asked that I be more careful.  If only that could have been the end of it.

I knew right away that I would be punished for this, even though it isn’t specifically addressed as an infraction in our contact. However, Mike was quick to point out this was a Safety Transgression as I must not do things that increase the risk of injury to others, and a breach in someone’s privacy is injurious.  Mike did not end it with a typical Reward.  He said John and Donna would also apply a punishment and that I would go over to their house, alone, to receive it.

Our contract allows Mike the authority to determine any Reward and he can prescribe additional rewards at his discretion. In addition, I agreed I would never object to a Reward and would always allow it to occur. I could use our next Maintenance Session as a platform to express my displeasure. However, I always felt that if there was ever something way outside the intent (my intent!) of the contract, I could object.

If you read the “Uggh…” post that started all of this, you will read that John did spank me during the immersion, but that was different. Mike was right there when it happened, and it happened in our house and at a time I was in a significant submissive state of mind. Plus it happened rather quickly, with no time to think about it.  While it felt odd to be spanked by someone other than Mike, it didn’t seem inappropriate or the least bit emotionally traumatic.

This time it was different. Mike told me to go over to their house, immediately disrobe, not say anything unless they spoke to me, and accept “whatever punishment” they wanted to give me.  I was very intimidated, knowing their form of TTWD is more extreme (painful?) than ours.  I also did not have the feeling of safety that comes with being in my home, and especially felt more vulnerable since Mike was not going to be there. Mike assured me my safe words would be respected.  I had significant reservations, but I had never said no to a Reward before.

I think if this had happened pre-immersion, I would have said no, as nowhere does the contact provide for a third-party to punish me. However, I think the immersion has left me in a more submissive state of mind, plus, my trust in Mike has grown to be truly absolute, and I felt he would make sure whatever they did would be appropriate.  Lastly, I highly respect our Contract, and I agreed to never interfere in Mike’s judgement as to a proper Reward.  The exact wording of our Contract is, “If Jennifer feels a Reward was not in keeping with the intent or spirit of this Agreement, she is to say nothing at the time of the Reward and accept the Reward as given without complaint.”  It is only at our next Maintenance Session that I can address my concerns.

So, I did not object.

I am writing about this from a pretty raw emotional state as all of this happened just about an hour ago.  First, as our son was home, Mike took me to our bathroom as it is the farthest from the living room where our son was playing video games.  Our other son was out with friends. The volume was up a little louder than usual on the video game, plus Mike had the tv on in our room a little louder than usual, and finally, he had the water running in the bathroom sink – plenty of cover for any spanking.

He gave me 10 warm ups with his hand, then 15 very firm ones with the dreaded rubber paddle, then 10 more by hand.  None of our aftercare process was followed. He had me dress and immediately head over to John and Donna’s.

We prearranged the process I was to follow.  I entered John and Donna’s house on my own.  I disrobed at their door and walked into the living room and kneeled on the center of their couch, my back (and ass) facing forward.  Then I waited. The wait was nerve wracking.  I heard them walk into the room but could not see them.  I felt something touch, then lightly tap my ass, and I knew someone was simply lining up a paddle. “Whack!”  It stung right away.

Then, John spoke and asked me why I was there.  I said it was because I had a safety infraction as I put him and Donna at risk by exposing their real names in my blog.   John then said he was going to give me 7 more with this paddle, and then would hand it Donna.   The spankings felt different than what I was used to.  While I don’t think they were necessarily harder, they just didn’t feel as loving and respectful, thus were harder to take, if that even makes sense.   When he was done I could hear Donna stepping up.  Donna stayed silent while John said I needed to count hers out.  Whack!  “One.”

Hers actually seemed harder than John’s, but she gave a longer pause in-between.  Whack!  “Two”

I arrived there with an ass that was already a bit raw from the paddle Mike used, so these were really stinging.  I began to cry after about the third or fourth one from Donna.  It wasn’t the pain, but it was because these spankings felt extremely shameful to me. I could handle what I was feeling physically. I did not like was I was feeling emotionally.

Donna stopped at 7, so in total I got 15.  John told me to stay facing forward and avoid eye contact with them.  They said “all is forgiven” and instinctively I repeated “all is forgiven” just like the aftercare routine Mike and I have.  John said they would leave the room and in about a minute I could get up, get dressed, and go home, which is what I did.

I came home and luckily was able to go to my room without encountering our son as it was clear I had been crying.  Mike had told me that when I got home I was to go to our room and disrobe, ostensibly to await further punishment; however, Mike was already in the room and he could see I was distraught, so he told me to stay clothed.   He held me and said “All is forgiven,” and I repeated, “All is forgiven.”  That ended our Reward Ceremony.

At our Maintenance Session tomorrow I am going to express that I never want anyone but him giving me a Reward.  I hated it more than anything we have ever done since we’ve entered a Domestic Discipline lifestyle.  I wanted to find my boundaries.  I just found one.

NEXT:  40 Kink in Routine / Reflections