Tag Archives: passive aggressive

368. Passive-Aggressive vs Aggressive-Aggressive: Chelsea Update

Figured I’d close the loop with you all on what happened/is happening with Chelsea. As shared in several posts, she stayed with us for while as her husband worked on out-of-town job. (Post 357, Post 358, and Post 359).

I am sharing this in part because I find it fascinating and I think others might relate to bits and pieces of this. Even if you don’t, it may satisfy the voyeur in you that likes to peer into the lives of others.

Her time with us was full of personal revelations for her as I detailed in 359. There was one revelations that was not on the list as she didn’t come to it until later in her visit. That is, she realized she had a lot of controlling behaviors when it came to how she treated her husband, Jaime.

She is controlling, but not in a “tell him what to do” sort of way. She tries to control how he feels about her and how he reacts to her. She is submissive in that she likes to be under his guidance and be told what to do and have to meet his expectations. But even with that, she still wants control over his reactions to her. She wants to be recognized as nice, loving, and caring. Of course, who doesn’t? But for her, it creates two sets of consequences.

One, when she doesn’t get the reaction she wants, she sulks, she misbehaves, and her body language is disapproving. She is likely to start a debate about something he asks of her. Simply, she undermines the dominance she wants from him.

The second consequence of her actions is that it causes Jaime to become uncertain, hesitant, and insecure about whether he is “doing it right” as far as being the Dom she desires. Jaime is a bit shy and reserved by nature. When Chelsea does something he perceives as a rejection or challenge to his role, he backs off from the responsibilities of that role. And in turn, that cascades into several other consequences.

His backing off means Chelsea doesn’t get the consistency she wants from him. In frustration, Jaime has turned to Mike to provide that consistency. I’ve shared before that Mike has become the surrogate Dom to Chelsea and often administers her discipline. And as Mike observed, it was causing both of them to become more passive-aggressive towards each other. Effective communication was breaking down in the process.

One of the things I’ve observed in Mike is that when it comes to communication with me or with Kayla, it is aggressive-agressive, not passive-aggressive. And I don’t mean it as “aggression.” There is no hostility or anger. I mean it in the way aggressive means decisive, clear, assertive, unambiguous, with clearly stated, and more importantly, clearly understood, intentions.

For example:

Passive Aggressive: “Isn’t that a lot of makeup?”
Aggressive-aggressive: “I don’t want you wearing so much make up.”

Sure, aggressive-aggressive is controlling. That’s what D/s is full of. But it is not passive-aggressive. Aggressive-Aggressive is about taking the wheel and driving right to your destination. Passive-Aggressive is hinting and mumbling about your desired destination, and then whining and resenting it when you don’t arrive there.

Chelsea realized that while she still thrives at being submissive, she needs explicit words of encouragement and appreciation from Jaime. All it took was sharing that with Jaime and Jaime was like, “Yeah, I can do that, because I am amazed by you and all you are willing to do for me. ”

Funny, she had fewer reservations about asking Jaime to be spank her and bring Domestic Discipline into their marriage than she did about simply admitting to him she needed more words of encouragement from him. Humans!

It might be easy to blame Jaime for not being more outwardly supportive. But he tends to be a person of few words, and it is just not his demeanor to verbally praise. It reminds me of something I posted several years ago – Post 158. Jen’s Simple Tips & my Golden Rule of Domestic Discipline. As well as what is in the two posts right after that one, 159. Follow the Leader. and 160. I’ll take you to my Leader. as well as the post right after that one.

That “Golden Rule” is: Make sure you both recognize the efforts and performance of the other. For the Dom, it means giving praise.  For the Sub, it means giving thanks. 

Since Chelsea has returned to Jaime, Mike continues to check in with them almost daily. They have both made an effort to work on this issue and apparently it is paying dividends. They both report a new energy and connection in their marriage.

HOWEVER, this post just talked of this newer epiphany regarding Chelsea realizing the impact of her controlling behavior mixed with Jaime’s reserved personality. What of the other realizations Chelsea had as I previously shared?

Her sexuality? She said she really wants Jaime in her life and as her husband, but she would love an open marriage with a third like what I have. And she feels very in love with Kayla. Kayla enjoys Chelsea company and considers her her best friend, but the “love connection” is not 100% mutual. And Kayla told her she is not interested in being their “third” as she is committed to our relationship. But, as ours is an open relationship, that doesn’t mean Kayla can’t be a “friend with benefits.” And for now, that is how that stands. Chelsea shared her feelings with Jaime and reassured him she has no intentions of leaving him – ever. And her desire for a relationship with a woman would always be within the context of their marriage and whatever Jaime would allow.

Chelsea feels relieved to have shared this with Jaime and for Jaime to have accepted it. She said she thinks some of her passive-aggressive tendencies was her trying to suppress or keep her strong feelings about this issue to herself.

I won’t go point-by-point through the remaining realizations shared in those other posts about Chelsea. But, to sum them all up —

While not completely gone, she is definitely on the road to reconciling every one of those issues and doing so with Jaime’s love and support. It’s amazing what 100% transparent communication and allowing yourself to be fully VULNERABLE to your mate can do for a relationship, especially when that vulnerability is reciprocated.

And if by chance it isn’t reciprocated or that the “full you” is not appreciated. . . well, isn’t that an invaluable thing to learn about your mate? It may hurt, but it hurts a lot less than a lifetime of negative behaviors and being unfulfilled.

309. Spanked Wife, Happy Life – Chelsea Part II

309

Continued from the prior post.

To help you with a mental picture of Chelsea, although she is 23, she can easily pass for 18 and with just a little effort, maybe even 16.   Her height is about all that helps her appear a bit older as she is about 5′ 9″ and while I didn’t ask, I would guess maybe 115 – a very small frame.  And the ringer for a more youthful look is her light freckles on her nose and high cheekbones that accentuate her already looking baby-face.  

Her husband is on the burly side, maybe 220 on about a six-foot frame but not all fat.  He’s muscular in a toned way, not super-buff.  Stout!  That’s it.  He’s very stout.  He looks even bigger when next to Chelsea.  We’ve met him on several occasions as well.   He’s more reserved and timid, whereas Chelsea is unfiltered and unedited.  

Chelsea said after about two years of marriage she began having desires to be disciplined by Jaime.  She started to miss the accountability and the motivation that the disciplining instilled in her, and yes, even a closeness she felt it could bring to her and Jaime.   

While generally not someone to keep anything in, it took her a long time to say anything because she felt that she was betraying herself in a way.  How could she want that?   She didn’t want to be like her mom.  How could she submit to be under the authority of her husband?   That just isn’t right.

It nagged at her even to the point she acted out in negative ways.  Passive-aggressiveness is one way we attempt to cope with unresolved emotions, and she became full-on passive-aggressive.  After many arguments about stupid things that she often started, she knew she had to come clean and confess her “ugly desire” to her husband. 

When she did, he 100% rejected the notion.  And not just the idea of it, but the idea that she would even consider it.  It made her feel terrible as in her mind it confirmed her fears that something must be wrong with her.   But his rejection didn’t make those feelings go away. 

So she pressed him from time to time, slowly increasing the frequency of broaching the topic.  Finally, one day she really pushed his buttons and he spanked her.  He was apologetic afterward and swore to never do it again, much to her chagrin.   More time went on, another year and her passive-aggressiveness deepened.  And then, Chelsea met Kayla.  Then Chelsea met me and Mike. 

Chelsea was like a sponge, wanting to learn everything about our journey into D/s.  She said it opened her up to a greater understanding of what it could mean to be submissive.  Until she met us, she just thought if she were to accept discipline from Jaime, it had to be just like her parents.  In her mind, her mom was weak, cornered, and incapable of understanding this just wasn’t normal.   Now, Chelsea knew DD  could be anything they agreed it could be.  Like me, she could have DD, Chelsea-style.   If Jaime would agree. 

Armed with a better understanding of her own emotions and how to better articulate them, she once again brought up the topic with Jaime.   This time he didn’t reject her outright and at least said he was open to understanding it better, which led to our meeting Jaime. 

It also led Chelsea to talk to her mom about DD, something she had never done in a true, open dialogue.  Chelsea had brought it up before, but always in a judgemental way.  Now, their conversations were more inquisitive and less inquisition.  In turn, Chelsea learned a lot about her mom and her dad.  While she still didn’t agree with everything they did and do, she had a greater appreciation for it.  

Armed with new confidence and a more open-minded husband, they made an attempt at instituting some DD into their marriage.  While Jaime was open-minded, he was still very reluctant, to the point that he asked Mike to help.  This led to Mike actually spanking Chelsea in front of Jaime to give him a more step-by-step break down of things he should consider in a spanking, including the after-care.   It got to the point that Jaime even called Mike to come over to administer several spankings as Jaime felt he just wasn’t doing it right.   

Jaime was very concerned with hurting her, both emotionally and physically.  It took some time for Jaime to feel confident that the “right” way was whatever way he felt comfortable with and that Chelsea accepted.  I didn’t keep count, but I think Mike probably spanked her on seven or eight occasions. 

Jaime still calls or texts occasionally to get advice on discipline.  I have to admit I am a bit jealous as I like to be the advice-giver, but in this case, Mike is their de-facto “mentor.”   They have even asked him over just to talk DD (and they have been over to our house as well).   

Jaime feels like he has a new wife, the wife he first fell in love with.  Her passive-aggressive behaviors are gone, and they are closer than ever before.   As they say, Spanked Wife, Happy Life.   Um, er, okay, that’s not how it goes, but it sure does for some people!

ISLAND OF MISFIT KINKSTERS
I feel a bit like our household is becoming the
Island of Misfit Toys, except it is the Island of Misfit Kinksters.   Those people who feel they are doing it all wrong, or are having trouble reconciling their desires with societal expectations or simply looking for ways to express those desires in a safe and nurturing environment.   There is my friend Valerie, and some of my other “lunch bunch” friends who have opened up a bit and shared some of the kinks they are into.  This also applies to Matt.  Oh, and John and Donna too.  And yes, of course, Kayla.

It’s like I wrote in 239. As you sow, so shall you reap, it’s karma. 

And then, we met TJ and Kim. 

Next: 310. TJ and Kim

 

 

267. Free to be: Seeking Domestic Discipline

267

I wrote in my last post I had a lunch date that I was a little late to.  It was with my friend Valerie – one of my “lunch bunch” friends.   And what of Mike’s instructions of me?  I shared that he told me not to wear panties and he gave me one other instruction.  More on that “instruction” in a bit.

I found my friends situation fascinating, thus this post.  My fascination is less about her interest in Domestic Discipline and more about her fears, thus this post isn’t so much about “look at what she did,” and more about, “Wow, we often get in our own way when we try to seek fulfillment.”   

VALERIE
She’s a former co-worker, a few years younger than me, married just over 20 years, and a newly crowned “empty nester.”  If you read Post 222 you know I’ve come out to my friends about basically everything.  This prompted Valerie to talk with me privately about her own needs and desires.    

Valerie confided that she has always been a bit submissive with her husband.  Not in a D/s sort of way – deferring a lot to him and being more traditional in doing things for him.  She always got a thrill out of serving him, and even at times craved some discipline from him.  Not necessarily spanking, but she admitted to liking being scolded by him – something he doesn’t really do.  In fact, she described some of her behaviors to me that sounded an awful lot like “bratting,” to purposefully get a rise out her husband.

The concept of formal Domestic Discipline was foreign to her.  She always thought it was a role play thing, not a way of life thing, until she learned otherwise from me.   She has been in a heavily reflective mood with the last kid now out of the house.  Energized by my story, she feels she must do something to fulfill her needs.  She believes it is a great time to reinvent and reinvigorate her marriage.  

She wants to completely “come clean” on her past bisexual experiences as well as her current desires for DD – she wants to become completely vulnerable to him.  It is a scary thing, and not easy to do, thus she is looking to me for support.

HER MOTIVATION – “FREE TO BE”
She told me that t
hey have always had a tendency to be a bit reserved with each other.  She figures after 20+ years of marriage, it’s a good time to stop being shy about various needs and desires.  She wants them to both feel “free to be” as she put it.  In my words, she is anxious to take all of who they actually are and present the “FULL” version of themselves to the other –  all their experiences, all their desires.  In essence, to finally be 100% vulnerable to each other.   

WHAT’S THE HOLD UP?
I have been talking to Valerie for three months and she still lacks the confidence to talk to her husband.  She called me over to her house to have lunch because she thinks she is finally ready, but needs a final pep talk.  I found it interesting to categorize all her excuses for not talking to him yet.  It illustrates just how hard open communication (vulnerability) can be. 

Fear of Rejection
She is afraid he might get angry, even though she admits it is unlike him to do so… but in her mind, “what if?”  This fear is hard to overcome, especially if you. . .

Lack of self-confidence
To allow yourself to be vulnerable you have to love yourself first.  While you need a good dose of self-esteem and self-confidence, you don’t have to think of yourself as Wonder Woman.  Just a generally good feeling about yourself and recognize the positive qualities you bring to the relationship.  It also means you don’t need your partner to define who you are or to complete you.   If you lack confidence, your insecurities will impact your mutual happiness.

In talking with Valerie I observed that none of her insecurities were rooted in anything her husband has ever said or done.  He sounds like a very loving partner.  Her insecurities were more rooted in her concerns over being judged by society, by her parents, and religious issues.  Keep in mind her parents are both deceased – but she still seeks their approval.   It was clear, in her mind, society, her parents, and her religion, has reinforced that she is not entitled to express herself or ask for what she wants.  She is basically to suffer, as that suffering is righteous and therefore fulfilling.   Ug!

We talked a lot about her marriage and I suggested to her that everything she has described to me about their relationship indicates she should be very confident that her husband will lovingly respond.   It seems clear to me that he never wants her to suffer and would move mountains to insure she doesn’t.

Appearing needy, emotionally imperfect
She felt she shouldn’t have such strong desires to want certain things from him, that perhaps her desires were not rational.  Sharing them could expose her as weak or needy.

This seemed like a submissive catch-22 to me.  Because she has always been naturally submissive to him, she feels expressing her needs goes against her own nature.   I found myself virtually reciting from many of my past posts, such as my Doctrine of Submission, or in discussing how you can’t hold someone else responsible for your happiness.   This ties back to the self-confidence issue.

Passive-Aggressive Behavior / Mind reading
I discovered that the two of them have been arguing more and more lately, and Valerie admitted she was the instigator.  She wasn’t just saying that out of some default thinking that everything is her fault.  She said she recognizes that she has been doing things like the silent treatment or doing other things to elicit feelings of guilt on his part.  Her justification is, “he should be able to figure out that I need something.”  In other words, he should be a mind reader. 

She was able to rationalize how counter-productive her behaviors are, but, said she just can’t help it.  I told her in my experience, passive-aggressive behaviors often come from not being 100% present in the relationship – that is, not being 100% herself, not being vulnerable, not meeting her needs first and rarely expressing them.  I believe those behaviors will go away once she discloses all her feelings to him.

This also reminded me of my discussion with my sisters about what it means to be degrading, unfair, and unhealthy.   Valerie’s behaviors certainly qualify. 

I suggested that her passive-aggressive behaviors and resulting arguments would be the perfect conversation starter.  “I know I’ve been overly sensitive and frankly a bit mean lately.  It’s because I have been trying to reconcile some things in my mind.  I now realize I need your help in doing that.  Can we talk?” 

LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH
I told her that what I have learned over the past three years or so was that love was not enough in my marriage.  I didn’t just want Mike to love me.  I wanted Mike to help me discover who I am and to help achieve the best version of myself. 

That required a lot of honesty and openness, with both myself and with Mike.  And through our journey, I also helped Mike discover who he is and help him achieve the best version of himself.

FINAL THOUGHTS
If you recall, the prior post ended with Mike giving me two instructions.  One is that I could not wear panties on my visit, and the other…..

“Valerie, since you are considering allowing your husband to discipline you, it might help you to see what a good spanking can actually do.  First off, I am not wearing panties because Mike forbids it – such are the types of rules I agree to be subject to.   Secondly, he told me to show you the results of the spanking I got just before I left the house and that I was to fully share the extent of the discipline I received.”

I lifted my skirt and bent over, exposing my backside to her.  It was still red.  I stayed in that position as I explained the full extent of my discipline…the soaping and the spanking.  I put my skirt down and sat back down once I finished explaining it.

I asked her thoughts.  She said, “That’s exactly what I crave from my husband. Well, minus the pee stuff.”   

Ha!  Yeah, I get it.   That revelation can be… ready for it?  here it comes….  “hard to swallow.”   And with that, she said she felt ready to have that conversation that night.

HOW DID IT GO?
He apparently took it pretty well.  She told me he was upset with her for keeping it a secret and not trusting him enough to have told him earlier.  But, the next day, told her he had some things to share of his own.  She didn’t tell me what it was, but, in simple terms, it’s what I see in most healthy relationships — vulnerability gets reciprocated. 

The resulting conversations yielded them sharing not just sexual experiences of their past which they never shared before, but talking about current dreams and desires, sexual and otherwise.  She was light on details, but said their sex life has been in overdrive.  And as for Domestic Discipline, she said she would like me to come over and talk to her about my Contract, as they are wanting to codify her Duties and Obligations!

How delightful!

Next: 268. When the Dom is Gone, the subs Get it On. . . . . . and a spanking