Tag Archives: honesty

245. Synchronizing Expectations

245

This post can be filed under T.M.I.  It’s probably more than you care to know.  I am trying not to hold back and just write it like it is.  Some of the detail may not be an interesting read.  I wanted to show a bit more of the gears and cogs behind what forms the foundation of our communication style.  And show how we deal with my pursuit of a relationship with Matt.

By the way, don’t know how easy it was to catch, but, see that image above?  Yeah, it’s a door mat.  Door mat.  A mat.  Get it.  As in Matt.  You know… Matt.   Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?    {crickets}  

MORE ON THE REVEAL
I want to revisit what Mike and I first talked about when I asked for the date night with Matt.  I wrote previously that I surprised myself in that once I recognized it was something I would like to do, I did not hesitate to ask Mike.  I wasn’t apprehensive or fearful.  To add to that, I don’t think at any other time in our marriage I would have been so calm and confident about such things.  I believe it reflects the level of “oneness” Mike and I are currently experiencing. 

I admitted to Mike that I am infatuated with Matt.  That “puppy love” type feeling that I haven’t felt since I started dating Mike eons ago.  By the way, this feeling isn’t just emotional.  The feelings are chemical. 

LOVE DRUGGED
When you are at the “infatuation” stage of a relationship, your body produces higher levels of norepinephrine and dopamine.  And those chemicals feel good! 

Typically when you come down from the “puppy love” drugs, your body then pumps you with vasopressin and oxytocin.  Basically they feel pretty good too and assist with producing an “attachment” type feeling.  They can help create a bond that further cements the relationship.   Love is indeed a drug!  

Ever have that feeling of, “I don’t understand why I am so attracted to that person, I know they are no good for me?”  Well, it’s hard to fight the natural feel good drugs in your system that the person somehow triggers in you. 

That concludes this public service announcement.  Now back to our regular program.

BACK TO OUR DISCUSSION
So here are more details on the discussion that transpired between Mike and I when I asked to date Matt.  Mike was not upset by my revelation.  He grinned and nodded his head, “Yeah, I can see how you would like him.”  He asked me how I felt about it.  I said it was hard to describe as it was so foreign to me and I asked, “What did you feel when Kayla came into our relationship?”

He said that my reactions and support regarding Kayla gave him the confidence to  pursue things with her.  He never felt guilty per se, but there were times he wanted to show me extra attention, love, reassurance.  He didn’t think of it as being driven by guilt over Kayla, but by his love for me, but it’s hard to say for sure.  Ultimately, my acceptance was the most important part of making him comfortable with it.

Yeah, I can relate to that.  I sensed Mike was going to be supportive and that is important to me.  If he had any reservations, I would not not pursue this.

Mike said he was not completely surprised by my request.  He had a hunch something was brewing.  He noticed something in watching me with Matt and said he saw it the first he watched us have sex.  With John the sex is more mechanical – just sex – and Mike enjoys watching me experience that.   But with Matt, Mike saw that there was more tenderness from the start,  a hint of a bond between us – and Mike was thrilled in watching me experience that.  

Mike said it surprised him that I didn’t seem that enthusiastic when we first talked about how I felt about the sex.  I had a “take it or leave it” attitude about it.  I liked Matt okay, and I was happy that Mike enjoyed it so much.  I’ll do it for Mike and the sex wasn’t bad  Yep, that was my attitude.  However, Mike said my attitude didn’t seem to match my body language.  Mike said he sensed a bit of a “spark” between Matt and I and it especially showed during the sex.  Unlike with John, I was really into it. 

In hindsight I agree with Mike’s observation, but at the time I chalked it up to the naughtiness of it all.  I was feeding off Mike’s delight over it.  Or so I thought.  Maybe I was and things changed, or maybe I just thought I was and was suppressing the attraction.  No matter.  We’re here now.  

Mike asked me what I envisioned in a relationship with Matt.   

“I don’t know.  No vision really.  Just enjoy and see where it goes.  A lot depends on how Matt acts and behaves.  Now that you approve, I plan to have a discussion with Matt and maybe you should talk to him to make sure we stay on the same page.”

Mike thought for a bit and at first said, “Yes, the three of us should get together and talk about it.”  But then he said, “You know, nix that.  It may be intimidating to Matt if I try to impose certain behaviors.  You are both adults.  I’d like to see how your relationship evolves on its own.  It’s not like I won’t be around.”

This led Mike to state he wants us to alternate between Matt’s place and our house regarding where we have sex.  This is where Mike also gave me some rules regarding keeping him informed throughout the date and calling him after I have sex.

WHAT I SEE IN MATT
Mike had asked me what it was that I like about Matt.  For starters, some of Matt’s peculiarities that remind me of him – there are just certain mannerisms he has that are Mike-like.  As for differences, Matt kind of reminds me of a lost puppy.  He still seems a bit traumatized by his divorce.  He is not self assured like Mike.  My compassion just oozes out to want to help Matt.  

I am keenly aware of my proclivity to want to fix people.  I don’t see Matt as someone who needs fixing.  He isn’t broken, just a bit shaken and down on himself.  The person I have seen thus far has a lot to offer.  Kind, caring, compassionate and witty.   He doesn’t appear to have any unhealthy vices (drinking, drugs, gambling) other than this one vice about sleeping with his friends wife. (ha!).  I see glimpses of a confident Matt.  It’s like this egg shell of doubt that already has lots of cracks.  No, he doesn’t need fixing, just a little chisel and polish to bring back the original Matt.   

Matt tends to be very closed, not forthcoming in showing his vulnerabilities… but he wiill if you prod him a little.  I get a lot of satisfaction each time he opens up a little more.  I wouldn’t say I am in love with him.  Perhaps I will be.  But I am attracted to him, infatuated by him…yes, there is a passion for being with him and of course, the sex.  I enjoy his company.  

THE SEX WITH MATT
Mike was clear with me from the beginning that he didn’t have any specific rules for me regarding sex with Matt.  If I was comfortable doing it, “Go for it,” was his exact words.  And as I shared before, I tell Mike all the details of what Matt and I do.   Mike recently asked me a pretty loaded question.  “Of the things you do with Matt that you do with me, what you like better from Matt than from me?”   

Ouch.  He really wants to go there.  Eject, eject, eject!  Just kidding.  I didn’t hesitate to answer honestly.

The first thing that came to mind is simply the thrill of the unknown.  I still don’t know what Matt may do and the uncertainty adds some fire to the moment.   The sense of adventure and even the awkwardness we both have as we learn each other’s likes and dislikes.  All of that adds an emotion that gives it an extra spark.  In Mike-style wit, Mike responded with, “So in other words, what makes it good is that it simply isn’t me.”  Hey, that’s not what I said!

The next thing isn’t that it is better than something Mike and I do, but just different. (Luckily Mike allowed the “not better, just different” loophole to stand).  

I am a lot louder with Matt. At home I always felt the need to be a little restrained so not to wake the kids.  I think years of this has conditioned me to not be too loud with Mike, even if no kids are around.  In addition, sex at home pretty much means in our bed, because sex on the kitchen table doesn’t work with kids in the house.  So yeah, 25-ish years of sexual habits have conditioned me to be a certain way with Mike.  I can forget that conditioning when I am with Matt.

In addition to louder, I am just more vocal.  With Matt, I will tell him “fuck me right here,” whether still in his doorway, on the kitchen table, living room floor, or wherever.  The air of the illicitness of it all adds to the passion.  Part of that I blame on Mike – he started it.  Mike likes to talk dirty to me when he watches me have sex with Matt, and he gets me to respond in kind.  Now, even when Mike isn’t there, I just have this need to scream those things to Matt.  After all, it’s important to maintain precedent!   That’s my explanation and I am sticking to it! 

Actually, it also helps when you first start having sex with someone that you communicate what feels good.  It also helps Matt overcome some of the hesitancy he has because I am Mike’s wife.  Although each time we’ve had sex he seems to be less and less hesitant about anything.  I’ll keep being loud just in case, tee hee. 

And the elephant in the room, ahem, okay, not quite THAT big. . . yes, Matt has a big penis, bigger than Mike’s, bigger than anyone I’ve been with (8.4 inches).  It’s nice to look at, but honestly, I don’t really feel any difference other than when it is in my mouth.  BTW, I can’t take him all in…sorry, not a skill I’ve honed.  Anyway, yes, nice to look at.  The visual conjures up thoughts of amazing orgasmic sensations, but you can’t judge a book by it’s cover… or in this case, the orgasmic intensity by the size of the dick.   That’s my experience anyway, you’re welcome to differ in the comments!

In all honesty, there isn’t anyone better at sex than Mike.  No one can match the feeling I get from being with him.  Sure I can feel some differences and get satisfaction from those differences, but nothing is better than sex with my husband.   And frankly, it is probably 80% mental/emotional and only 20% physical that makes that statement true.   For me, sex with my lifetime  partner is tops!    

So that’s pretty much it.  Mike and I do share everything.   Try having that conversation with your significant other, I dare you!

WHAT’S NEXT WITH MATT
It’s been two weeks since that initial “date request.”  Matt and I have gone out twice.  We went back to his place for sex and then I came home.   And just yesterday Mike set my official date night with Matt to be on Tuesdays.  So if you keeping score, with Mike’s new edict, one Tuesday Matt and I go out and return to his place, and the next Tuesday we go out and return to mine.

I’ve had great discussions with Matt regarding my expectations and his.  I believe we are on the same page, as well as one can ascertain such things at this point.  And clearly Mike and I are on the same page.  So I think we are off to a proper start, as evidenced by Mike’s next suggestion. 

OVERNIGHTS?
“Jen, would you like to spend the night at Matt’s when your date nights end at his place?” 

Yep, Mike just asked me that last night.  It would have be easy to say, “Whatever you like, Sir.” or even just an “Okay, Sir,” but those answers aren’t acceptable.  When Mike asks me something it isn’t because he wants me to agree (he doesn’t need my agreement).  He wants to know how I feel.  It took many spankings over quite a long time to make me finally break my habit and understand that when asked for my opinion, “Okay” is not an answer.    

I thanked him for offering this and told him I would like that.  We will give J a cover story that I had an early doctor’s appointment.  So it’s settled.  Next Tuesday I go on a sleep over! 

MAID SERVICE?
Mike then added, “And can Matt use some help at his apartment?  Cleaning, laundry, stuff like that?”  I responded that I suppose he could and I stated that this sounded like a step towards being submissive to Matt (I already shared with Mike that I am not looking for that).  Mike said he wasn’t asking me to be, but thought it would be yet another bonding opportunity if I performed some acts of service for Matt – not out of submission, but out of caring.

I expressed concern with it taking away from my current duties and obligations in our own household.  I am already extremely busy meeting those commitments. Mike paused for a moment then responded, “On the nights you spend with Matt, in the morning I want you to prepare him breakfast and after he goes to work I want you to stay and clean his apartment.  You can leave there at noon.” 

“Yes, Sir.”

WHERE’S THE GREAT COMMUNICATION IN THAT?
There are differences in our communication depending on the situation.  For instance, I might bring something up to him at any time that prompts a meaningful discussion. These “somethings” are ideas or thoughts I am having about something we haven’t discussed before, such as my request for a date night with Matt.

Then there are the discussions that lead to Mike making a decision and stating what he wants.  At that point the discussion is over.  I am not to argue, plead, or hesitate when he states something in a declarative way.  I am to simply obey.  I can use our next Maintenance Session to respectfully express my concerns. 

I’ve learned to be attuned to how Mike states something.  He is typically very clear when he is soliciting my feedback and when he isn’t.  And when he isn’t, it is my duty to obey without question.  I like that.  Every time he states something in a commanding way, I get a little tingle in my tickle-spot. 

WHAT WILL I SAY AT MAINTENANCE? 
I’ve learned to think before I speak.  So let’s look at the evidence.  In this case, we had agreement that he was not expecting me to be submissive to Matt, no need to reiterate that.  I stated my concern about performing my own household duties, so no need to repeat that either  (repeating the same plea could result in discipline).  The thing I think I will bring up at Maintenance is that at first Mike said he wanted my relationship with Matt to evolve on its own.  Now here he is, imposing things.  That’s it!

Now, I have to think carefully about how to word my concern.  I can’t ever phrase things in a way that sound like I am saying “got ya’, so there!”  Very disrespectful.   I know Mike is coming from a loving place, but I really want to know if his general approach is going to be hands off or not.  It is just that… wait, hold on.  You know what?  This is why I love writing.  Epiphany!

It doesn’t matter that Mike said he wanted to just “see how it evolved.”  He is always free to modify anything he says.  He doesn’t have to forever commit to that statement.  And I shouldn’t expect him to give a commitment on how he wants to handle this.  Heck, I can’t even commit to how I will handle this.  It’s too new.  

I shouldn’t have put so much weight on his statement of “let’s see how your relationship evolves on it’s own.”  He said it in the context of having a face-to-face three way discussion about ground rules.  He didn’t say it in the context that he wasn’t ever going to be involved, in fact he ended it with, “it’s not like I won’t be around.”

This is what I love about my DD!  

It may not seem like it, but what I am sharing here is huge.   Think of it this way — Suspend the fact that pre-DD Jenny wouldn’t be talking to Mike about date night rules with another man – just pretend that little fact doesn’t apply.   Okay, got it?  Great.

Here’s how I imagine pre-submissive Jenny would have dealt with this —  When Mike said to clean Matt’s place, pre-submissive Jenny would say, “I already said I have too much to do.  What are you going to take away from my responsibilities here so that I can tend to Matt?  And you’re exact words were ‘let’s see how your relationship evolves on it’s own.’  Well, now you are sticking your nose in and telling me what I should or shouldn’t be doing for Matt.  Make up your mind!”

A far cry from “Yes, Sir.”

So what will I say at Maintenance?   Nothing. 

I am good.  I’ll adjust my calendar as best as I can and like always, if I run into challenges in meeting my Duties and Obligations, I’ll talk to Mike.  My tending to Matt’s place is as important as any other Duty and Obligation because Mike wishes it.  That’s good enough for me.

AND EVEN MORE WHAT’S NEXT?
Lastly, this morning Mike told me to think of ideas to spend more time with Matt.  Mike said he feels if it is all just “dinner and a fuck” (his words), that I won’t really be getting to know him better. He told me to talk to Matt and come back with suggestion.   “Yes, Sir.”

I’ll talk to Matt.  Here are some things that come to mind:

  • Perhaps I spend all day on a weekend with him.  Not sure how my schedule can swing that or what kind of cover story we can come up with J. 
  • Maybe he comes to our house more often…dinner and hang out, stuff like that.  Not great one-on-one time, but it isn’t always about one-on-one stuff.  Sharing mundane daily life can be bonding. 
  • Maybe we go somewhere together?  I am not opposed to it, but I really don’t want to be away from Mike and J like that.  I can handle an overnight, but a weekend or something like that?   I don’t think so.   And Mike would definitely have to give me special dispensation from my Duties and Obligations. 

We’ll see.  Mike asked me for ideas on how to spend more time with Matt, not for excuses on why I shouldn’t.  

Enough Matt-talk.  Did you know that my husband sometimes spanks me?  Yes, shocking isn’t it.  You may not know that from my recent posts.  Maybe it’s time to share about a punishment or two?   Next post?     

Next: 246. Subconsciousness of Wrong

 

 

 

149. Kayla Rises. A Submissives Manifesto

149

A few months ago Kayla “came out” to a male friend of hers, Daniel.  I point out that he is gay, not because it matters, but he is still in the closet to friends and family, except he has shared with Kayla.  They have a sibling-like relationship, always platonic, and we have met him on a few occasions.  When Kayla asked to share her (and ours) dynamic with him, Mike and I agreed.  

Kayla said that Daniel never asked a lot of questions when she told him and just accepted that she was in a relationship with an older couple and it involved some kink, namely Kayla being submissive.  

Daniel was over this afternoon visiting with Kayla and I guess it gave him an opportunity to see certain things and thus ask more questions about our dynamic.  It was a very respectful conversation, no judgement – just curiosity.   His visit and that conversation was uneventful to the point it wouldn’t even warrant a post about it, sans one bit of the dialogue.  

Daniel said something to Kayla like, “By becoming submissive aren’t you basically agreeing to allow yourself to be violated?”

Kayla’s response touched me and I felt I had to share it.

Kayla’s Response
 “Yes, Daniel, you could use that word, ‘violated,’ but I believe that word implies a lack of consent.  A better word is ‘challenged.’  I allow my character, my beliefs about myself, my personal integrity, my morals, my ethics – all of that — I allow all of that to be challenged.” 

“What it has meant to me is that I have found a new way to express the feelings and emotions that I have always had.  I express them in ways that are not self-destructive.  And I don’t believe I have “become a submissive.”  I believe I was always a submissive, but I just didn’t know it and had to find it buried inside of me.  I believe the only way to be a real submissive is to be real.  Be who you are, and for me, this is who I am.”  

“For the first time in my life I am truthful with myself.   My submission is about dedication to the truth – the truth in who I am.  I find I answer the questions I pose to myself with more honesty than ever before.  Because I must share my feelings with Mike and Jen, I have to give more thought to what I am truly feeling.  I can’t just give those feelings a fleeting thought and a hasty, ill-conceived and overly self-negative, conclusion.  I have to think through them more deeply as I have to be able to articulate them to Mike and Jen.”   

“Honesty is a harsh and harrowed path, but is the only path that allows happiness to bear its greatest fruit.  I have found that delivering the fullness of myself to Mike, and allowing that fullness to be challenged, or in your words, violated, I am able to find out who I truly am.  More importantly, I discovered that honesty and myself are enough.  Who I am is enough.  Enough for me, enough for Mike, enough for Jen, and enough for this world.”   

“And it isn’t as if I have reached some ultimate destination.  My excitement is that while I now feel “enough,” I know there is so much more for me to learn about myself and the world.  That my “enough” will not only continue to expand, but it will do so without me ever again feeling “less than.”  Life’s uncertainties no longer scare me.  Poor decisions and bad experiences of the past don’t weigh me down.”  

“I am a submissive, which is not to say I am submissive.  I am Mike’s submissive, but to the world I am Kayla, and I am strong, and I am smart, and I am worthy, and I am enough.”

WOW
I was practically crying when she finished.  Even now I have a hard time putting into words what her statement meant to me.  Frankly, what it means to me is secondary to what it meant to Kayla.  Of course, I had to have her repeat much of this so that I could get it all down.  I told her how much it moved me and made me feel so good that Mike and I played our part in helping her with this.

I shared before that Kayla was a bit of a wallflower, a bit shy, and very insecure,  “Was” being the operative word.  That Kayla is no more.  As she said, Kayla is strong, smart, worthy, and enough!   

NEXT: 150. Entering the Forbidden Zone