Tag Archives: christian domestic discipline

85. Bright or Dark? Source of Submission.

lite

If you read my last few posts (82 or 84), you know that Donna is staying with us while John is out of the country on business.  The first part of last week was hard on Donna as John required her to be subject to all my rules, and only my rules.  Having to forsake her normal routine and acts of submission was emotionally difficult.   She enjoyed the later part of the week and the weekend as John required her to only follow her normal rules, with Mike filling in for John.

Direction, Discipline, and Service.
I’ve always known John and Donna follow a different D/s relationship compared to Mike and me.  Donna really enjoys, craves, and is fulfilled by direction, discipline, and service. As for me, I like the Service the most, Discipline is good – a nice mix of pain and pleasure – but I don’t really delve into the Direction part.  I don’t seek Mike’s input on a lot of daily decisions. Part of it is that so much of my day is being a mother, and the decisions need to be made quickly.  I will give this more thought.  Perhaps there are more things I could be doing to be more submissive around “Direction.”  I kind of look at is as a nuisance to Mike if I have to seek too much direction from him.  I do defer a lot to him as it is, but I am sure I could do more.  Humm…something for me to think about and talk about with Mike.

Anyway, John set out the rules for this week and it surprised me.  He once again ordered Donna to follow my rules, from this morning (Monday) through when she wakes up on Friday.   I thought this might be devastating to Donna but she took it well.  She told me that it is much easier this week and I was surprised by her reasoning.  She said she is upbeat about it because she knows it will be difficult for her and more importantly, John knows it too, but John wants her to do it anyway.  It’s like, she feels more submissive, and thus more comfortable doing it, precisely because it is difficult for her and John knows it and is requiring it anyway.  Bottom line, she feels more like “his” submissive this week, even though she is following my rules.  Interesting!

SubmissionThe Dark Side or the Bright?
Spending all this time with Donna means we’ve been able to talk a lot. We’ve talked a lot about our personal motivations and satisfaction regarding submission.  I’ve always admitted that my submission is a bit “light” compared to Donna’s, but she made an interesting observation about my submission.   She said that she feels my submission comes from a “bright” place, and that hers is more from a “darker” place.  And, while she has not known many people who are submissive, her belief is that most cravings for submissiveness comes from a “darker” place and that I was not the norm.

What she meant by dark is that in her mind the submissive has some history that includes perhaps at least some neglect or belittlement, or at worst some physical or sexual abuse.   If not any of those, then at least a depression or high anxiety of other origin.

I’ve only known one submissive –Donna. She has met a few other than me, but didn’t know them well, so our sample size is basically limited to our personal experiences.  I disagreed with her and told her that I think it is her own personal confirmation bias talking.  We all relate best to our own experiences, and tend to assume that people who are like us must have also had similar experiences and have similar motivations.   I told her I’ve never read anything about this so can only assume that like most things in life, people involved in various TTWD run the gamut of life experiences.  That includes whether or not TTWD include D/s or any other kink.  My guess is there is no set profile of “dark” or “bright” (as she called it).

I do admit that her past has some physical, emotional, and sexual trials and tribulations that I’ve been fortunate enough not to experience.  I also admit that those experiences play a role in the colloquial “things we do” as well as in the kink culture TTWD.  I do not believe a specific set of life experiences predisposes someone to seek out a D/s relationship.  As this is just a gut feeling, I am open to the fact I could be wrong.

I also sensed condescension in her tone.  As if she was a “real” submissive and I was just playing like one.  That’s a bit of an over dramatization, but, I still felt that she was inferring this.  Funny thing, but I know in my discussions with Kayla that I’ve done far worse than just infer this.  When I was still feeling resentful about the Kayla situation I told Kayla that this was a serious life choice for me and I couldn’t accept her just doing it as a lark.  Funny how the tables have turned and Donna was basically saying something similar to me.

I avoided feeling offended by Donna as I was able to relate to what she was feeling.  I even told her how I related this to my situation with Kayla.    I agreed her submission is “deeper” than mine, but mine was made to fit me and Mike, not her and John.  It also made me realize even more that it is extremely important that Kayla is allowed to create something that fits Kayla, assuming submission is even a route she decides to go.  And so what if she is just “trying it on for size?”  There isn’t anything that says she has to be committed for life.  Heck, even I eased into the current level of submission I have with Mike.  We don’t owe the submissive lifestyle a certain “level” of submission.  My conversation with Donna just reinforced with me that we should encourage each other to find and maintain a lifestyle that brings us the most joy and fulfillment, whatever that lifestyle may be. 

I wonder if there have been any studies out there about submissives?  Specifically in the Domestic Discipline sense and specifically with the woman as submissive – although it would be interesting to see if the findings are similar with male submissives.  And I don’t mean Christian Domestic Discipline.  I mean regarding women who clearly had options and alternatives and sought out a D/s or a Domestic Discipline relationship of their own volition, absent any family or community/religious expectations.

My bet is we would find that we come from all walks of life, all ages, and a wide range life experiences.  Some great, some good, some not-so-good, and yes, some very bad too.  Oh, what do I know?  I’ve apparently got the “bright” form of submission which according to Donna predisposes me to see everything with rose-colored glasses.  Maybe so.  Maybe not?

86.  Nature vs. Nurture.  Finding my DD.

20. Putting on a Show (masturbation)

Meet my neighbors
We’ve become good friends with our neighbors, John and Donna (not real names). They are 6-7 years younger than Mike and I and already empty nesters.   We never sensed a dominant/submissive dynamic between them, but we did feel John was domineering and Donna was passive.  We were naive.

Donna and I are good friends; shopping, talking, and the occasional girl’s night out. All four of us go out on occasions, dinner at each other’s house, watch movies or sporting events, barbecue, and stuff like that.  We all hit it off, despite my thinking that John is a bit of an ass.  While Donna is able to do things with me, there is always the “I’ll check with John first” or “I need to be home by 10.”  A constant list of rules or restrictions because “John said.”  I took note that it was never a “John asked.”  I knew John kept Donna on a metaphorical tight leash.

John and Donna were always very comfortable in their interactions when we were around them.  I never sensed anything too out of the ordinary, so again, I chalked it up to John being a bit of an ass.  Occasionally Donna and  I would talk about our sex lives.  She seemed extremely happy and highly complementary of John and it all sounded pretty ordinary.  She never had any experience with another girl, as I learned after sharing with her stories of my college experiences.

DD opened my eyes to the world of dominant/submissive relationships.  Suddenly, things I noticed about John and Donna took on a different context in my mind.  It clicked – I bet they’ve got some sort of sub/dom thing going on!  Either that, or John is just an ass.

SHARING OUR SECRET
I was itching to share my DD lifestyle with someone and Donna was the right person, plus now I thought she might actually relate.   I figured even if I misread these signals that she was still someone I felt comfortable confiding in.  I asked Mike for permission to do just that, and while there were some reservations, Mike agreed that I could.

I confided in Donna.  Her reaction was calm but with some giddiness and heightened energy.  She asked a lot of questions and even wanted to see my contract.  She was highly intrigued and I remember her saying “wow” a lot.  I asked her if her and John had any sort of arrangement about her being submissive.  She said no, but her answer seemed insincere.  I didn’t press the issue.

The next day she came over during the day (she works part-time) and shared with me that indeed, her and John live a type of d/s lifestyle that was more master/slave.  To me it sounded like their own mix of DD with some religious CDD overtones (Christian Domestic Discipline) but also with a dash of BDSM.  A potpourri of D/s relationships!   It didn’t share much in common with what Mike and I did, however, the common ground was that we both forged out our own unique form of an D/s relationship.

Donna said she didn’t tell me the day before because she had to get John’s permission first.  Both of them had always wanted to open up to someone about their lifestyle so now was the perfect opportunity.  Amazingly, we had neighbors into an alternative lifestyle that was somewhat like ours.

THE SHOW!
That evening we got a sitter and Mike and I went over to their house for dinner as the boys had lots of questions and we all wanted to talk. We talked openly and matter-of-factly about various facets of our D/s, DD, or whatever-label-you-want lifestyle.  It was liberating to ask and answer such personal, detailed questions and get and give such revealing and honest answers without any judgement.

While John seemed respectful of our differences, he did seem to feel superior to Mike in that he had a lot more control over Donna than Mike had of me.  John then said something that seemed to challenge Mike’s “rule” over me.  I don’t remember exactly what it was other than it was playful, not spiteful, but was still a dick thing to say.  And Mike, being fully aware of the sexual desires he and I shared (see Sexual Thoughts, Dreams, Desires, Fantasies) he saw an opportunity to quiet John down and fulfill a desire that both he and I had.

Mike calmly asked me, “Jenny, why don’t you ask John for permission to masturbate for them?” 

It took me a second to process what he was saying as I just didn’t expect it.  I talked a good game, but now it just got real.  Would Donna be comfortable?  Would I be comfortable in front of John?  Also, I learned from Donna that day before that her and John never had threesomes or couples or anything other than monogamous sex (same as Mike and I).  I wasn’t sure what John may think of this or where he might think this could be heading…or what Mike had in mind.  But in the flash of the second that those things ran through my mind, I also was more than happy to oblige this shared fantasy that Mike and I had regarding me masturbating for a group, albeit a small one.

“John,” I asked as calmly as if I was asking to borrow a pen, “if you’ll allow it, I would like to masturbate right here for you and Donna.”

John looked over at Donna and then looked back at me and said, “I’ll allow it.”

I remember looking at Donna and she didn’t seemed pleased.  Understand that Donna is gorgeous, very physically fit and awesome body and firm breasts.  If anyone should feel inadequate about their body, it was me… a bit chubby and 3-kids-later-saggy-boobs. Certainly she wouldn’t be jealous, but maybe she thought John would make her go next or perhaps this just wasn’t her thing?   Maybe she didn’t like the idea of someone doing something sexually lurid in front of their husband?   Oh well, too late to stop now.

I walked over to the couch and sat down.  I asked them to take a seat, and Mike sat at one end of the couch as Donna and John sat in a love-seat nearby.  I started rubbing my breasts and pussy on the outside of my clothes.  I then tucked one hand under my shirt and bra and fondled a breast with one hand, while the other plucked open my button-fly jeans.  I slid one hand down my pants and played with myself until I was good and wet.  I stood up and pulled my pants and panties off.  I unbuttoned my shirt to expose my bra and sat back down.  As one hand worked on my pussy, the other one pulled back my bra to expose one breast.  Knowing they were all watching was as exhilarating as I dreamed.  I really loved the attention and the orgasmic feelings began to quickly swell as I pulled hard on my nipples and sunk my fingers deep inside my pussy.  I would frequently open my eyes to see the reaction and make eye contact.  The eye contact was hotter than hell!  I loved looking into their eyes as they watched me.  John had a huge grin, Donna’s look of disapproval seemed to be gone as her eyes were big along with a sly smile, and Mike was clearly loving it too.

I would lick my fingers as I would alternate which hand was on my pussy and which one was on my boobs.  I stopped briefly to take off my shirt and bra and quietly mumbled, “I hope you’re enjoy this as much as I am.”  I was now completely naked on their couch.  Although everyone’s eyes said continue, I felt it necessary to ask Donna a question.

“Donna, may I continue?”

As soon as I said it I was concerned that perhaps I broke their personal etiquette by asking Donna for permission and not John.   Donna didn’t miss a beat and said, “I would like you to continue if John allows it.”

John’s reply was, “Yes, continue, but, Mike, please move over to give Jenny more room, and Donna, I want you to go over to the couch and sit down next her.”  I thought this was about to go up a notch and hoped Donna is ready.  I was pretty sure I was.

John directed Donna to sit at the head of the couch and he asked me to just put my head in her lap and continue.  I looked over at Mike as I wasn’t sure if this was going somewhere we didn’t want it to.  Mike simply got up and sat down in a chair and said, “Works for me.”  So, I put my head in her lap and continued on playing with myself.

It was amazing to look up in Donna’s eyes while I moved my fingers in and out of my pussy and rubbed my clit faster and faster.  I loved watching her eyes as I licked my juices from my fingers.   Her hand was lightly brushing my arm back and forth and at one point I grabbed Donna’s hand and squeezed it as I was getting closer to climax.   Now I was holding her hand with one hand, and fingering myself with the other.   I loved the feeling of her being so close to me while I masturbated.  I loved that Mike was watching, and yes, I even loved that John was watching.  Having all these eyes on me, fully exposed and vulnerable all in an environment that felt safe, was all that I dreamed it would be.  I don’t know if John and/or Mike planned for Donna to do more than hold my hand.  We didn’t have time to find out as my orgasm was building quickly and then I yelled out, “oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeaaaahhhh.”

I laid there for a minute or two, naked on their couch as I caught my breath.  Donna continued to stroke my arm.  I was very comfortable and still was “getting off” by having them all stare at me, naked on the couch.  But as more time went on it was starting to get awkward.  This “what’s next” that no one wanted to ask.  Several more minutes went by and I had to pee so I got up to go to the bathroom.  I wasn’t sure if I should just stay naked or not but I  grabbed my clothes and went to the bathroom.  Mike stopped me and said, “Jen, leave your clothes here.”   So off I went, walking through their house naked.

In the bathroom my mind was thinking about what may be in store for that night.  Would we venture into threesome/foursome land? Swapping?  Sex with a woman?  Would Mike want to try out some of their equipment?  Would I be willing to actually go through with whatever Mike was thinking?  I was not “for” some of these things but I left the restroom committed to seeing through whatever was in store for us that night.

AFTER THE SHOW
I walked out of the bathroom and Mike asked me to go ahead and put my pants on, but leave my top off.  I don’t know if I was happy or saddened by this.  So there I was sitting with my boobs out and then we talked about what just happened.  They asked me how I liked it and of course they said they loved it too.  I told Donna I caught a look of despair when John said he would allow me masturbate.  Donna said it was all good, no despair, just shock.  She joked that given all of her and John’s kink’s that this would not have been a shock, but as kinky as they are, they had never had anything remotely like this happen before.  Like Mike and I, they kept their kinks to each other.

Funny but no one was talking sex.  The conversation went on to whatever mundane thing was going on in the news or sports or something like that.  At one point I finally said something about why I was the only one with my top off.  John then told Donna to remove hers.  She did, and yes they were as beautiful as I thought they would be.  Although we both had our tops off there really wasn’t a sexual spark in the air.  Although I was the only one to orgasm there was still this post-sexual relaxed vibe going on.  A little tit titillation was about all we could handle.  So we hung about another two hours with Donna and I bare breasted.   Nothing further happened, sexually speaking.   At least that night.

Next – 21. Hubby read my posts.  Ouch!