85. Bright or Dark? Source of Submission.


If you read my last few posts (82 or 84), you know that Donna is staying with us while John is out of the country on business.  The first part of last week was hard on Donna as John required her to be subject to all my rules, and only my rules.  Having to forsake her normal routine and acts of submission was emotionally difficult.   She enjoyed the later part of the week and the weekend as John required her to only follow her normal rules, with Mike filling in for John.

Direction, Discipline, and Service.
I’ve always known John and Donna follow a different D/s relationship compared to Mike and me.  Donna really enjoys, craves, and is fulfilled by direction, discipline, and service. As for me, I like the Service the most, Discipline is good – a nice mix of pain and pleasure – but I don’t really delve into the Direction part.  I don’t seek Mike’s input on a lot of daily decisions. Part of it is that so much of my day is being a mother, and the decisions need to be made quickly.  I will give this more thought.  Perhaps there are more things I could be doing to be more submissive around “Direction.”  I kind of look at is as a nuisance to Mike if I have to seek too much direction from him.  I do defer a lot to him as it is, but I am sure I could do more.  Humm…something for me to think about and talk about with Mike.

Anyway, John set out the rules for this week and it surprised me.  He once again ordered Donna to follow my rules, from this morning (Monday) through when she wakes up on Friday.   I thought this might be devastating to Donna but she took it well.  She told me that it is much easier this week and I was surprised by her reasoning.  She said she is upbeat about it because she knows it will be difficult for her and more importantly, John knows it too, but John wants her to do it anyway.  It’s like, she feels more submissive, and thus more comfortable doing it, precisely because it is difficult for her and John knows it and is requiring it anyway.  Bottom line, she feels more like “his” submissive this week, even though she is following my rules.  Interesting!

SubmissionThe Dark Side or the Bright?
Spending all this time with Donna means we’ve been able to talk a lot. We’ve talked a lot about our personal motivations and satisfaction regarding submission.  I’ve always admitted that my submission is a bit “light” compared to Donna’s, but she made an interesting observation about my submission.   She said that she feels my submission comes from a “bright” place, and that hers is more from a “darker” place.  And, while she has not known many people who are submissive, her belief is that most cravings for submissiveness comes from a “darker” place and that I was not the norm.

What she meant by dark is that in her mind the submissive has some history that includes perhaps at least some neglect or belittlement, or at worst some physical or sexual abuse.   If not any of those, then at least a depression or high anxiety of other origin.

I’ve only known one submissive –Donna. She has met a few other than me, but didn’t know them well, so our sample size is basically limited to our personal experiences.  I disagreed with her and told her that I think it is her own personal confirmation bias talking.  We all relate best to our own experiences, and tend to assume that people who are like us must have also had similar experiences and have similar motivations.   I told her I’ve never read anything about this so can only assume that like most things in life, people involved in various TTWD run the gamut of life experiences.  That includes whether or not TTWD include D/s or any other kink.  My guess is there is no set profile of “dark” or “bright” (as she called it).

I do admit that her past has some physical, emotional, and sexual trials and tribulations that I’ve been fortunate enough not to experience.  I also admit that those experiences play a role in the colloquial “things we do” as well as in the kink culture TTWD.  I do not believe a specific set of life experiences predisposes someone to seek out a D/s relationship.  As this is just a gut feeling, I am open to the fact I could be wrong.

I also sensed condescension in her tone.  As if she was a “real” submissive and I was just playing like one.  That’s a bit of an over dramatization, but, I still felt that she was inferring this.  Funny thing, but I know in my discussions with Kayla that I’ve done far worse than just infer this.  When I was still feeling resentful about the Kayla situation I told Kayla that this was a serious life choice for me and I couldn’t accept her just doing it as a lark.  Funny how the tables have turned and Donna was basically saying something similar to me.

I avoided feeling offended by Donna as I was able to relate to what she was feeling.  I even told her how I related this to my situation with Kayla.    I agreed her submission is “deeper” than mine, but mine was made to fit me and Mike, not her and John.  It also made me realize even more that it is extremely important that Kayla is allowed to create something that fits Kayla, assuming submission is even a route she decides to go.  And so what if she is just “trying it on for size?”  There isn’t anything that says she has to be committed for life.  Heck, even I eased into the current level of submission I have with Mike.  We don’t owe the submissive lifestyle a certain “level” of submission.  My conversation with Donna just reinforced with me that we should encourage each other to find and maintain a lifestyle that brings us the most joy and fulfillment, whatever that lifestyle may be. 

I wonder if there have been any studies out there about submissives?  Specifically in the Domestic Discipline sense and specifically with the woman as submissive – although it would be interesting to see if the findings are similar with male submissives.  And I don’t mean Christian Domestic Discipline.  I mean regarding women who clearly had options and alternatives and sought out a D/s or a Domestic Discipline relationship of their own volition, absent any family or community/religious expectations.

My bet is we would find that we come from all walks of life, all ages, and a wide range life experiences.  Some great, some good, some not-so-good, and yes, some very bad too.  Oh, what do I know?  I’ve apparently got the “bright” form of submission which according to Donna predisposes me to see everything with rose-colored glasses.  Maybe so.  Maybe not?

86.  Nature vs. Nurture.  Finding my DD.

13 thoughts on “85. Bright or Dark? Source of Submission.”

  1. I’m just now reading all of your blog, which I find fascinating. I do NOT like how Donna treated you in the slightly condescending manner, in fact I’d go so far as to say it was a form of “flaming,” to treat another’s “thing we do” with disdain because it might not be as deep, dark or intense. That’s just plain rude – and not nice nor acceptable in any way. Her Dominant or Master (IMHO) should punish her hard for such disrespectful behavior.

    Of course, the punishment must be done creatively. Generally with such submissive folk pain punishment is not the way to go – they enjoy it too much! Humiliation works far better. I am eager to get back to reading…


    1. Thank you so much for the compliments on the blog. Don’t be too hard on Donna. Yes, it was condescending, but not out of a sense of superiority, but a sense of lack of knowledge (you can say “ignorance” but that word tends to be inflammatory). It was simply a bias she had about people who are into certain kinks. She now knows better. Her realizing this was humbling, but not humiliating, and came through reflection, not punishment. However it came about, she understands the error in her prior thinking.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. You got me thinking, especially because I’m new to this and only able to submit on a “part-time” basis because of our current situation. Does that make me any less of a submissive? I wouldn’t think so, but somebody else may. I think we all have our own relationships and none is going to be a carbon copy of another, it’s just not possible.
    Thanks for writing this, it’s nice to have others who see that we are all going to do it our own ways and in the ways that bring us the most happiness.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Labels are tricky. They help all us explain a piece about us, but each label leaves so much out that while it intends to define us, it ends up limiting that definition as it is subject to the interpretation of the other person. I respect whatever label a person wants to use to describe something about themselves, but even then, is my interpretation of the label what they intended? It reminds me of the Breakfast Club (1980’s reference). “You see us as you want to see us. In the simplest terms. The most convenient definitions…” Ultimately, the point in that movie is that regardless what our different “labels” are, we are still far more alike than different. While labels are good to give us some frame of reference, we shouldn’t box someone in to our preconceived notion of what that label means. So yes, you are submissive, in the way that works for you and fits your needs. I am a theme-park loving bisexual mostly Italian and English white submissive liberal gun-owning Texan suburban atheist-raised-Catholic stay-at-home mom and housewife who likes to be spanked. Yeah, one of “those!” Lots of labels, but none fully describe me!

      Liked by 1 person

  3. i want to see some research too!! i don’t think there’s much out there, but as BDSM becomes more open and accepted in the mainstream, there will be research. My prediction is that we won’t fit into neat little categories at all, that although some trends will be evident, there will be outliers all over the place.

    Interesting post. Thanks.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. I believe you brushed the edge of the reality. To be blunt… He’s your husband and you take what he gives in a way that works for y’all. You take it and, on command, beg for more. You like this, you cherish this, you value this and you love this. This is your’s and nothing compares to it in your eyes. From there it is easy to see someone else’s perfect as wrong.

    This last bit is not aimed at you. Were I to gather you and the others in a room and have a critical look, I might be disappointed. Too tall, too short, wrong hair, wrong build…. None would compare to the beauty of my one but you are each perfect in the eyes of one.

    Different perspective but I hope you see my point.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Having read your blog, I am inspired your level of submission and to your commitment to your dynamic. Your relationship is different to mine and has a different emphasis which is only right as we are different people with different husbands and different lifestyles. To me my submission is about serving my Sir and meeting his needs and desires – naturally they will be different to the needs and desires of another Dominant so my submission will not look the same as other people’s. I have friends who are littles and friends who are slaves and again, what they do will not necessarily be the same as me, but we share the same motivation at the root of it. Some engage in darker play and their kink will be more S&M than others but I don’t see if as more or less than anyone else. I don’t think of your tack bra as ‘light’ – ouch!! If you and your Sir are happy then that is what counts as you have done this for him and for you.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. I had never really thought about the bright/dark aspect. Maybe D/s as ‘bright’ and S/M as ‘dark’. It is true though that most of the people I’ve known who have suffered from abuse are more dark in needing the pain to cope with the past. That is certainly the case with things like cutting and drugs. I don’t think it is possible to separate the bright and dark because everyone has both to some degree. Your relationship w/ Mike as blogged about here is for some submissives likely very ‘dark’. For others like Donna is may seem ‘bright’. Personally I find the debate to be harmful as to what level of D/s, DD etc. is correct because every relationship is obviously going to be different. Not to mention, every person has a unique comfort level and limits. It takes time and patience to build any relationship of any sort.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yeah, I guess sometimes we get so vested in our individual commitments that it is easy to allow negative thoughts creep in when we see someone not “honoring” (by replicating) what we hold so dear. The conversation with Donna really helped me understand that I should honor whatever level of submission Kayla wishes to explore, if any.


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